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Thread: What Training Method is best for YOUR dog?

  1. #21
    Senior Member shawninthesticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer66 View Post
    I see absolutely no reason why it wouldn't be a great idea to pull certain components from different training methods. Matter of fact I think I've seen a number of posts here on RTF saying exactly that. When I read the original post I don't see someone who is "hodgepodgeing" or half assing or anything like that. I see a guy who is trying to put together a program using what he considers to be the best components of more than one method for himself and his dog. If a guy truly has a grasp for the reason for each step in these programs then he should be able to cover all of the needs of a successful program by combining. Dog training isn't rocket science, it isn't like there are only 3 ways to train a dog....Smartworks, Lardy, Hillman...(not picking on those just mentioning them because they are the most often mentioned on RTF in my experieince).....and to say that if there was a better way then someone would have already put it on paper is close minded. I can't fathom going through life believing the world is truly flat and there are only a select few ways to train a dog.

    Obviously I don't know if the op has any idea what he's getting in to but to simply assume he's messing up by developing his own system isn't fair to the op if ya ask me.
    I was implying that I am sure he is not the first new trainer to put together a " Gauge’s Program",I thought that that was the best way also,and realized that my plan wasnt getting me where I wanted to go,so I had to decide on Lardy or Graham since I had material from both of them in my desk.

    I do believe that the methods that are most widely used have been tried and tested and have had proven results.

    I'm sure there is a lot of experienced trainers that add a twist or 2 to their program which has had positive results,but I'd say most are still big named based.

    Even Lardy say's that his program is Carr based,but how many dog's did he train to be able to improve on it?

    I dont think it is close minded to believe in proven results.

    Good news about cooking is if you mess it up you can throw it in the trash and start over or feed it to your dog.

    Good luck with the stick and string ,its cold out!
    Shawn White

    HR Big Creek Retrievers Independence Day JH QAA "Indy "

  2. #22

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    The responses to this thread have been more enlightening than any other thread I have read.
    So there are 5 guys in North America that received a revelation in dog training and published their epiphany. I must also assume that they are masters in communication and each DVD/book is so expertly written or demonstrated that there is no room for shortcomings. No matter what the trainers experience might be, no matter which dog is used, each one will be developed to master hunter level because the programs are infallible and perfectly explained.

    The only other explanation would have to be that the trainer did not follow the program to the letter; an all too easy explanation for failing to match the right method to the right dog or failure on the part of the publisher to clearly explain the steps.
    This assumption also tells us that a fresh perspective from, a guy that that has hunted over dogs for 40 years, could not possibly see the value of merging two of these programs. Thereby, taking nothing away but rather utilizing the experience from these men and knowledge of this particular dog’s strengths and weaknesses.
    The advice of follow a program is sound. I agree that there are steps involved. I also believe that to leave out steps is to create “holes”. 5 methods have shown 5 ways to teach hold conditioning. Are they all right or are they all wrong?

    I plan to borrow hold conditioning from publisher “A” while following the methods from publisher “B”. I also want to introduce CC where publisher “C” began rather than where publisher “B” did, because it makes more sense TO ME.
    Even the videos tell you “if Fido doesn’t get it you can try......”
    Too assume there is no room for improvement in any one of these programs is what you guys call GDG.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauge123 View Post
    The responses to this thread have been more enlightening than any other thread I have read.
    So there are 5 guys in North America that received a revelation in dog training and published their epiphany. I must also assume that they are masters in communication and each DVD/book is so expertly written or demonstrated that there is no room for shortcomings. No matter what the trainers experience might be, no matter which dog is used, each one will be developed to master hunter level because the programs are infallible and perfectly explained.

    The only other explanation would have to be that the trainer did not follow the program to the letter; an all too easy explanation for failing to match the right method to the right dog or failure on the part of the publisher to clearly explain the steps.
    This assumption also tells us that a fresh perspective from, a guy that that has hunted over dogs for 40 years, could not possibly see the value of merging two of these programs. Thereby, taking nothing away but rather utilizing the experience from these men and knowledge of this particular dog’s strengths and weaknesses.
    The advice of follow a program is sound. I agree that there are steps involved. I also believe that to leave out steps is to create “holes”. 5 methods have shown 5 ways to teach hold conditioning. Are they all right or are they all wrong?

    I plan to borrow hold conditioning from publisher “A” while following the methods from publisher “B”. I also want to introduce CC where publisher “C” began rather than where publisher “B” did, because it makes more sense TO ME.
    Even the videos tell you “if Fido doesn’t get it you can try......”
    Too assume there is no room for improvement in any one of these programs is what you guys call GDG.
    First of all we are not talking about someone who has hunted over dogs for 40 years , we are talking to someone who has a pup and is trying to get started in this game,
    Second he is talking about reading and watching every book out there and making his own (program) and he knows what is right for his dog and what isn't, in a training prospective
    Last edited by tejohns3; 01-14-2013 at 05:42 PM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member shawninthesticks's Avatar
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    Good luck ....
    Shawn White

    HR Big Creek Retrievers Independence Day JH QAA "Indy "

  5. #25
    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauge123 View Post
    The responses to this thread have been more enlightening than any other thread I have read.
    So there are 5 guys in North America that received a revelation in dog training and published their epiphany. I must also assume that they are masters in communication and each DVD/book is so expertly written or demonstrated that there is no room for shortcomings. No matter what the trainers experience might be, no matter which dog is used, each one will be developed to master hunter level because the programs are infallible and perfectly explained.

    The only other explanation would have to be that the trainer did not follow the program to the letter; an all too easy explanation for failing to match the right method to the right dog or failure on the part of the publisher to clearly explain the steps.
    This assumption also tells us that a fresh perspective from, a guy that that has hunted over dogs for 40 years, could not possibly see the value of merging two of these programs. Thereby, taking nothing away but rather utilizing the experience from these men and knowledge of this particular dog’s strengths and weaknesses.
    The advice of follow a program is sound. I agree that there are steps involved. I also believe that to leave out steps is to create “holes”. 5 methods have shown 5 ways to teach hold conditioning. Are they all right or are they all wrong?

    I plan to borrow hold conditioning from publisher “A” while following the methods from publisher “B”. I also want to introduce CC where publisher “C” began rather than where publisher “B” did, because it makes more sense TO ME.
    Even the videos tell you “if Fido doesn’t get it you can try......”
    Too assume there is no room for improvement in any one of these programs is what you guys call GDG.
    It's always awesome when someone that doesn't know what he doesn't know gets on here to tell folks that do, how it's gonna be but then when they tell him he might want to rethink it, he tells them that THEY are wrong. You know, cause he's smart and stuff.
    "The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

  6. #26
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauge123 View Post
    Too assume there is no room for improvement in any one of these programs is what you guys call GDG.
    I don't think anyone seriously assumes there is no room for improvement in any of these programs. Lots of folks have improved on the various programs. However these are mostly guys with big trucks full of dogs with letters in front of their name.

    To assume that some dude who just bought and read them and has very little experience is the guy to improve upon, say Lardy's program, is just silly. I'm not saying that someone can't, I am just saying that I would bet the mortgage that person would end up sending the dog to a pro to fix the problems created before I bet they would come up with a better program.

    BTW, I follow Doublehaul's program. I train my critters just about every weekend whether they need it or not. DVDs coming soon.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleHaul View Post
    I don't think anyone seriously assumes there is no room for improvement in any of these programs. Lots of folks have improved on the various programs. However these are mostly guys with big trucks full of dogs with letters in front of their name.

    To assume that some dude who just bought and read them and has very little experience is the guy to improve upon, say Lardy's program, is just silly. I'm not saying that someone can't, I am just saying that I would bet the mortgage that person would end up sending the dog to a pro Andfix the problems created before I bet they would come up with a better program.

    BTW, I follow Doublehaul's program. I train my critters just about every weekend whether they need it or not. DVDs coming soon.
    I dont think anyone could have said it better than you just did.

  8. #28
    Senior Member archer66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achiro View Post
    It's apparent that you are in a similar situation as the OP. Nothing wrong at all about being new to all of this, all of us were at some point, but don't be offended when someone that knows better offers up some advise.

    I'm not offended in the least. People disagree all the time. That's life. I'm also not in the same boat as the op. I AM relatively new to training dogs all you have to do is read some of my posts to figure that out. However I am following Smartworks to the letter..... I haven't even looked at Hillmans system or Lardy's...mostly because I'm satisfied with Smartworks. Sam is my second dog....my first one began his training almost ten years ago and for that I used Wolter's Water Dog system which today is discounted on here as out of date and inferior. I discovered smartworks when my first dog...Remi...was three. I used smartworks for his continued training, mostly on handling and and for re-enforcing commands he already knew. Imagine that....I used two different systems for the SAME dog....oh my GAAAWWWDDDD I probably ruined that dog....he sure did retrieve a lot of ducks for a ruined dog.

    Like I said before I have no idea if the op is going to have any luck with his plan....but rather than tell him it won't work without actually SEEING it is close minded. THAT is what prompted my post.

  9. #29

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    Wolters is outdated? New to me ,Hell im rereading top dog for the umpteenth time but when you train dogs and learn mutiple personalities from training different dogs then sometimes you need to refesh on the stuff youve used before and that goes back to what youve said before, basically. Using everything your saying im just not understanding how your getting the op saying hes read all the books and watched. all the dvds to what your sayin using just 2? Btw mostly the base of smartworks is from wolters to me personaly but i just might be comparing things differently for some reason

  10. #30
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tejohns3 View Post
    Wolters is outdated? New to me ,Hell im rereading top dog for the umpteenth time but when you train dogs and learn mutiple personalities from training different dogs then sometimes you need to refesh on the stuff youve used before and that goes back to what youve said before, basically. Using everything your saying im just not understanding how your getting the op saying hes read all the books and watched. all the dvds to what your sayin using just 2? Btw mostly the base of smartworks is from wolters to me personaly but i just might be comparing things differently for some reason
    Who knew? Next thing you know Evan will be teaching handling with the whistle...
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