The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 70

Thread: What Training Method is best for YOUR dog?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    5,181

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tejohns3 View Post
    Btw mostly the base of smartworks is from wolters to me personaly but i just might be comparing things differently for some reason
    Excuse me? How so?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  2. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Cape Girardeau Mo.
    Posts
    1,365

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    It's not so much which program is best for your dog, as it is which program is best for you as a trainer. You're the one who will be trying to convey the information to the dog. Take a closer look and see what seems most logical and clear to you.

    Evan

    Here is good advice ....All the programs available will get you the results in the end...If you follow the sequence ....That is the danger of mixing and matching if you are not a well schooled trainer ...Things need to fit together in a sequence of logical order...If the order is not correct the dog is hindered in training ...putting the cart before the horse as they say ...The method of teaching (drills used ) blinds is not important if it works...IE:the discussion of TT or some other way....In the end does the dog have the necessary skills to run cold blinds....? Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Cape Girardeau Mo.
    Posts
    1,365

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tejohns3 View Post
    Wolters is outdated? New to me ,Hell im rereading top dog for the umpteenth time but when you train dogs and learn mutiple personalities from training different dogs then sometimes you need to refesh on the stuff youve used before and that goes back to what youve said before, basically. Using everything your saying im just not understanding how your getting the op saying hes read all the books and watched. all the dvds to what your sayin using just 2? Btw mostly the base of smartworks is from wolters to me personaly but i just might be comparing things differently for some reason
    I doubt if Evan ever studied under Wolters... Richard didn't invent the material in his books either ...Find a book by James Free or Charles Morgan ....He may have tweaked some things to better suite his way of thinking though...Just as all good trainer have done for the last 40 years...Bobby George wrote a book titled the Cotton Pershall method...Evan wrote one titled the Evan way ..Lardy wrote one ,the Mike way ...And on and on the list will go ..." there is none thing new under the sun " ...there are very few true inventors ...a lot of tweakers though ....Rex didn't invent the collar or the program to implement its use but he sure did refine
    the way it is now made and used ....Vent over ....good night all ..Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  4. #34
    Senior Member Rnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Erie,Pa.
    Posts
    608

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    I doubt if Evan ever studied under Wolters... Richard didn't invent the material in his books either ...Find a book by James Free or Charles Morgan ....He may have tweaked some things to better suite his way of thinking though...Just as all good trainer have done for the last 40 years...Bobby George wrote a book titled the Cotton Pershall method...Evan wrote one titled the Evan way ..Lardy wrote one ,the Mike way ...And on and on the list will go ..." there is none thing new under the sun " ...there are very few true inventors ...a lot of tweakers though ....Rex didn't invent the collar or the program to implement its use but he sure did refine
    the way it is now made and used ....Vent over ....good night all ..Steve S
    Great post Steve. Can't add a thing to it....Perfect.
    May you pin all the marks and line the blinds!!

    Avatar courtesy of RTF"s TZAPPIA

  5. #35
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Roscoe, IL
    Posts
    2,046

    Default

    After you've trained a hundred dogs or so then I would feel comfortable making changes to the training progression.
    Dang, I know that isn't going to happen in my lifetime.
    Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
    KwickLabs Fountain of Youth - Pounce
    MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
    HR Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
    Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
    HR Kwick Draw McGraw SH (June, 2007 - May, 2014)

  6. #36
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    4,140

    Default

    I have trained well over a hundred dogs. I train mostly gundogs and most only stay about 3-4 months. I now define 4 months as the minimum time in which I will take a dog on. Still I don't feel comfortable taking bits and pieces from multiple programs or make substantial changes to established programs. Sometimes I will change the order of a few things as Mike Lardy has said he is not a slave to the flow chart. But this is generally when to start collar conditioning.

    Yes Wolters in outdated. He did not use a force base system. Later in life he recognized the need for the force and actually had others do his force work. I met Wolters and think he contributed a lot to the retriever world. In the latest dvds from the people that took over the Wolters name, they acknowledge this up front.

    I don't think Evan's program has anything to do with Wolters except that both are training retrievers. I am not totally familiar with Smartworks, as I follow TRT, but I have been to one of his seminars.

    While I don't like to dwell on the negative, the mix and match suggestion came from someone that is apparently very new to training. I would suggest that this is a not a good plan.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

  7. #37

    Default

    QUOTES:
    “it's hard to fully understand the material you have read.”
    Then you had best use a trainer
    “But, he doesn't know the "goal" for each step, or why the steps are where they are.
    It can't be "explained" either.”

    This was my favorite response, you don’t know the goal and you can’t explain it, yet can offer advice? To assume “he” doesn’t know the goal is assuming.
    “we are not talking about someone who has hunted over dogs for 40 years”
    Excuse me, but yes we are.
    “doesn't know what he doesn't know”
    However, I do know what it is that I am trying to get out of the DVDs.

    I threw this out there so I deserve what I get. Some responses were polite and firmly expressed the need to complete each step. I will definitely take it to heart. I know I’m going out on a limb. It’s a little scary. But I am going out there with known goals and as much knowledge as I can gather.

    Other responses sound more like lemmings.
    You can’t do that. Why not? Because, many have tried, and most have failed. Why did they fail? Because, they didn’t follow the steps. What are the steps? I don’t know. Oh, then I better not try.

  8. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Illinois Wisconsin border
    Posts
    915

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Excuse me? How so?

    Evan
    Thought that would get your attention!
    Earl Dillow

  9. #39
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Burlington, Vermont
    Posts
    11,380

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    .what are some things you see that you are sure your dog will not do, and why?
    again, I ask. what is it you think your Boykin will not do?
    many of the Breed Related myths are just that.
    Like how Goldens don't like water and Labs Lay by the door and Chessies smell bad.


    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  10. #40
    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Enid, OK
    Posts
    2,071

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauge123 View Post
    QUOTES:
    “it's hard to fully understand the material you have read.”
    Then you had best use a trainer
    “But, he doesn't know the "goal" for each step, or why the steps are where they are.
    It can't be "explained" either.”

    This was my favorite response, you don’t know the goal and you can’t explain it, yet can offer advice? To assume “he” doesn’t know the goal is assuming.
    “we are not talking about someone who has hunted over dogs for 40 years”
    Excuse me, but yes we are.
    “doesn't know what he doesn't know”
    However, I do know what it is that I am trying to get out of the DVDs.

    I threw this out there so I deserve what I get. Some responses were polite and firmly expressed the need to complete each step. I will definitely take it to heart. I know I’m going out on a limb. It’s a little scary. But I am going out there with known goals and as much knowledge as I can gather.

    Other responses sound more like lemmings.
    You can’t do that. Why not? Because, many have tried, and most have failed. Why did they fail? Because, they didn’t follow the steps. What are the steps? I don’t know. Oh, then I better not try.
    Nobody said that they didn't know the steps. Someone may have said they didn't know the steps because they didnt know which programs you were using. You do what you want, it's your dog. Anything is usually better than nothing but people here have tried to offer you advice based on years of experience of actually doing it. People that know the problems you can create doing what you are suggesting are trying to help you but you continue to take the, "I can because I'm different" approach. Truth is any of us that have been around dogs for any amount of time have been around people like you(some were you). Anyone that has spent any time on this site have seen people like you. You may end up getting what you want out of the dog but you will have holes, you will have spent unnecessary time on redundancy(ending up with a confused or bored dog), and you will probably need advice that you are either to proud to ask for or have nobody left to ask because they are tired of trying to help someone who won't listen.
    "The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •