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Thread: Jan 14 training

  1. #21
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    That's what FTP is all about.
    Building a compulsion to drive to the back pile.

    It's basically Force Fetch, extended out to a pile.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    This!!!!

    You really want and need the dog going ethusiastiaclly to that back pile..

    You can fix your remote sit, the dog looking away,, verbal and hand casts,,
    Get the foundation down first.. Thats the back Pile!!

    JMHO.

    Gooser

    P.S.

    I agree too,, that it takes Onions to post a Video,, and ask for opinion,,,, Thick skin! Thick skin!!!
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  2. #22
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    the dogs attitude and desire will get better with time as long as you are careful to mix praise with force.
    Yes.

    Pay attention to effort. How hard the dog is trying.

    When he tries harder, PRAISE.
    When he slacks off, FORCE.

    Timing is critical. With both praise, and with force.

    And don't just use the collar.

    The stick is a whole lot better.
    The dog can HEAR the stick "coming". And it knows when it "beats" it's sting.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Jay-Bird's Avatar
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    This is a great avenue for me to learn and help other young people learn that dont have the parts to post/ask.
    I truly appreciate it all.

    I do think im going to slow it down and work the back pile a bit alone, next day will be some marks and free time for him to romp then repeat that the next few days, while listening to advice given, i need to keep my eye out for good ground to train on so i can evaluate his speed/momentum

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    This!!!!

    You really want and need the dog going ethusiastiaclly to that back pile..

    You can fix your remote sit, the dog looking away,, verbal and hand casts,,
    Get the foundation down first.. Thats the back Pile!!

    JMHO.

    Gooser

    P.S.

    I agree too,, that it takes Onions to post a Video,, and ask for opinion,,,, Thick skin! Thick skin!!!
    Agreed. I would want that dog driving to the back pile hard. I would also want the dog to be almost flawless in the going to the back pile from the remote sit and you're still seeing a lot of mistakes there. If it were me, I would get that back pile flawless before adding in whistle stops and overs. Remember, for almost every dog the over piles are very easy for some reason (At least that's what I've seen in my limited experience and heard from others) so get the back pile down.

    Thanks for posting

  5. #25
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Me no expert dog trainer but I know WINTER!

    Like others, I think the dog is just trying not to slip on the ice.

    I found/find learning to cast really hard. I should have done a video too, prolly would have saved myself a lot of time.
    Renee P

  6. #26
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    I would caution also that there is a difference between enthusiasm and panic
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  7. #27
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Gooser, I think at this stage of training the dog needs both hand signals and voice for the back cast. Silent and verbal only casts will come later.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

  8. #28
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    Just a few questions at what level of training is Brittany, owned several with my brother many years ago. What are your end goals of running the Lab, hunting, hunt tests HRC or AKC, or Field trials? Where are you located?

    I think perfection is the enemy of the good , old quote not original from me. You appear to have some previous training experience watching your returns on the retrieve with a snappy finish to the side. Having said that it is a real plus for lining the dog up first ,next send. Use the dead bird cue, but, lose it when you put your hand down, maybe sequence of sit dog looking out, dead bird cue, hand goes in , dog is sent. You might have to heel forward closer to the pile to get the dog to look out after the sit command. I do see some issues in the future if he associates that hand with pressure.
    Sometimes dogs will look out but don't see they are just looking out and can transfer to marks. It is a form of bugging.
    Trained with a pro trained dog who developed the looking out , needed one point for his AFC, never could get it.

    Ok, I would tone myself down with a normal tone of voice. If your normal speaking voice is loud, then work at being quieter on your sends and your good dogs, maybe just use a Ok for praise and not all the time. The dog has advanced to a level as far as I can see on the video where there is not a lack of effort, so should not be praised all the time.
    Try to take the bumper with your right hand, use that nice finish heel to your advantage then slip the hand in for the send, using your sit, dead bird cue if you choose, hand goes in for the send, don't use even a slight forward motion and send. What I have learned and many others much more experienced have taught me, half or more blind work and marks happens before the dog ever leaves the line. So all those basic commands will play a very important role later on in the field. Are you having fun is the big question and is the dog having fun? If the answer to both is yes, then just keep what you are doing take the advice that's seems to make sense and get your critique back at the Board.
    Last edited by Criquetpas; 01-15-2013 at 08:28 AM.
    Earl Dillow

  9. #29
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    Gooser, I think at this stage of training the dog needs both hand signals and voice for the back cast. Silent and verbal only casts will come later.
    Wayne.

    Yes !

    I was surprised how long we stayed on learning that back pile.
    I got her to the point where I thought she was ready to move on,, but was told we were then going to start to tackle the issues.

    There was flaring, a poor front finish, her attitude, my attitude, my barking commands, her sit when she came back to me, her eye contact.
    She ran that back pile for a long time...

    The dog in the Video here reminds me very much of Flinch when we started. Flinch is soft, didnt really have a ton of go. Eventually things started comming round. The help I recieved in applying pressure, then PRAISE when she did it right, Vastly improved her enthusiasum and drive.
    She eventually started to anticipate the back command and cast. very good eye contact. The just verbal casts happened on their own. The silent cast just happened on its own. She was so compelled to go,, that either a verbal or a cast,, and she was gone..

    I am convinced with dogs I have had in the past, I didnt spend NEAR enough time with pile work... I was told Now(Pile) is the time to fix a LOT of problems.

    Flinch's favorite game now is running or being cast to a back pile.
    I will set a pile off to the side of training days,and run her to it as a fun bumper.. She Loves it..

    I will say aslo that my Daily regiment of that that back pile would only take about 15 minutes TOPS...
    We would work on that back pile,, then go throw marks..
    You have to learn when to stop, before you run out of dog.... Keep the fun in it..


    Gooser
    P.S.
    I will aslo say,, it was a surprising long time, before I sent her from my side..
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 01-15-2013 at 08:25 AM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  10. #30
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Rowdy has been on the T pile is seems forever. I am using one my neighbors back yard. I started then it snowed, then the kids were out on Christmas break, then I restarted, then it rained 3 1/4 inches so I had to wait until my neighbors yard dried out some. Monday we started again, now it snowed/sleeted this morning. So another delay.

    My Rowdy is so compelled to get to the pile on the remote sit back cast that I have to work at it to get him to sit there. I blink an eye lid and he wants to go. This is going to work out though. I druther have this problem than the no goes. On whistle sits enroute he's reliable to stay until cast.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

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