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Thread: Jan 14 training

  1. #31
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Jay-Bird, I see your dog looking around a lot. Is it distracted, looking at your other dog?

    If you have room you might consider setting up your T differently so your dog is not running straight down a road. You may be inadvertently teaching it to run down roads which will haunt you later when you don't want the dog to run down a road.

    Newbie regards...
    Renee P

  2. #32
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    I see lots of improvement here but from what I am seeing and from other comments I have to ask what phase are we working on? 3 handed casting? FTP or T?
    The dog is doing a nice job but I see problems in the second video in 3 handed casting that should be pretty damn solid before going to FTP the T. I too like to see a little more momentum but not necessarily by force. Used in the wrong time or place force can kill momentum. When starting yard work it's all about teaching with fun and excitement and wanting to do the job without force or much correction. A dog that isnt enjoying yard work is tough to train and not much fun. I may be wrong but to me that is what I am seeing in this dog. He wants to do it but is a little nervous and confused as to whether he is doing what he is supposed to and worried about correction.
    One example I see of this is in the second video when you are casting him back and he wants to go to the left over pile you give him a pretty growly NO! He looks pretty nervous. I would just use a calm no and bring him back with reassurance that he is ok by talking to him in a calm and easy voice. Then when he does it right make a fool of your self telling him what a good boy he is, women do this much better than men. The teaching phase needs to be as black and white to the dog as possible with little to no correction. Now if you were truly up to doing T work, and Im not totally sure you are, when he goes left instead of back the second or third time I would blow the sit whistle then a nick and recast rather than bringing him back and starting over. When teaching 3 handed casting I would bring him back and recast but when doing T work he should have a total understanding of what is being asked of him and be able to deal with a little correction via indirect pressure when he makes the wrong move. I'm not sure this dog is to that point.
    I like enthusiasm, not necessairily leaving a trail of fire but something that shows the dog is having fun. I dont see a lot of this here. I think the dog is very capable of building momentum but dont think force is the answer at this point. Personally I would back all the way up to 3 handed casting and start over building momentum by making it fun and building confidence. You could progress faster than the first time because he already has been taught what to do. Go about it this time with the intention of building momentum.
    I will save my opinions on things other have commented on because to me you are not to that point yet altough I would slow down on your casts and not throw it out there like you are throwing a jab at Mike Tyson. You are teaching the dog well and he is understanding and learning from it but what I think is lacking is the enjoyment of the work and I believe the cause of that is a moving a little too fast with correction and force. This dog doesnt not need much in the way of correction to learn from his mistakes. I see too much correction and not enough excitement and praise. A stern NO! and this dog is saying ohh S#!t when a simple nooo come back here and lets do it right is sufficient. Dont get me wrong I am not saying you are in any way mean or abusive to the dog. What I am saying is that it doesnt take much for him to understand he made a mistake. If you are more calm and clear with your teaching your dog will be more calm and clear with his learning. Some dog need a little more sterness but I dont believe Ty is one of them.
    I usually dont comment much here, must be the 15 below weather outside and the lack of nothing better to do, but I also see a nice dog and a new trainer that has as much potential as the dog and would like to see them improve. All the above is simply my opinion and observations. Not saying I'm totally right or wrong just think about it and see if any of it can be of use to you.
    Last edited by Steve Shaver; 01-15-2013 at 09:43 AM.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    I personally would not be running him on ice. That is a vet bill waiting to happen. I also have winter issues and if the conditions are not safe I will not train. Snow is ok , ice not so much.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Jay-Bird's Avatar
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    Steve, I thank you for your post. I was thinking of backing up and making it more fun and doing a day of yard work followed by a day of fun and marking.

  5. #35
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Bird View Post
    Steve, I thank you for your post. I was thinking of backing up and making it more fun and doing a day of yard work followed by a day of fun and marking.
    You should be marking the dog, every day that you do yard work.

    Don't do it in the yard though.
    Keep the field separate from the yard for right now.

    The field and the yard are two different worlds.
    Don't bring "yard stuff" into your marking sessions, and don't throw marks in your yard sessions.

    Your dog needs to be building a positive association with field work. And daily marking sessions are really great for that.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Bird View Post
    Steve, I thank you for your post. I was thinking of backing up and making it more fun and doing a day of yard work followed by a day of fun and marking.



    Your welcome and good idea. Keeping balance as much as possible between marking, yard work, handling etc. is always, and I will say always, a good idea. However what I meant was start over with your yard work right from the begining with the goal of increasing momentum. Some dogs do need a break from yard work but generally when I start teaching a dog to handle I like to do it every day but will do other stuff like marks in that day too. Most dogs I have worked with (with the exception of a couple) really like yard work because I work at making it so right from the begining. Maybe in your case it may be a good idea to just do fun stuff for a few days before starting over but when and if you do keep the balance throughout the process.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget Bodine View Post
    I personally would not be running him on ice. That is a vet bill waiting to happen. I also have winter issues and if the conditions are not safe I will not train. Snow is ok , ice not so much.
    I'm with Bridget, and someone else who mentioned the conditions. I would not like my dog going faster than this in these conditions. I much prefer a plowed parking lot to frozen ruts.
    Howard Niemi

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  8. #38
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Thanks Howard.
    Wayne Nutt
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    In the Lardy flowchart of things, the front sit remote cast comes from three handed casting and transfers directly into the FTP. The FTP from front sit avoids many of the problems of the side send until the dog learns the line and pile location, etc. The problems from the side sends: bugging, no goes, flaring, etc. The side send is slipped in. But to keep the side send issues to a minimum keep doing the front sit sends mixed in with the side sends.
    The front sit sends also is a cure for some of the side send issues that may develop.
    Force is initially done from the front sit position.

    If you are not following TRT this may not be what your program does.
    Wayne Nutt
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  10. #40
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    What Wayne said,,, andd


    Think of what and where most of you cast are in relation to a cold blind, and the dog.

    Dont you think you want them getting use to being cast back from a position of sitting facing you?
    You work at getting that eye contact going.
    Side send eventually, but most often remote sits.

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 01-15-2013 at 07:14 PM.
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