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Thread: Training Collar- or - Hunting Collar????

  1. #31
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    I think you are completely nuts.
    If the dog is advanced enough to take hunting, it's advanced enough to regress. Especially in areas that are situational. Like hunting.

    So much of hunting, undoes what we work so hard to get in training. Even if the dog is wearing an e-collar.

    My dogs are supposed to be trained, when they get to a test too.

    But, if I could have a collar on them, you can bet your ass I would have a collar on them!
    And if I could run tests with a collar, I'd be able to run a whole lot more consecutive weekends without having to take a break.

    Dogs learn things in tests and while hunting that we DON'T want them to learn.
    Having an e-collar on the dog, allows us to maintain quite a bit more of the training that we have worked so hard to put in.

    It has nothing to do with the dog being trained, or not being trained.
    If anything, the higher the dog's advancement level, the more important it is that you have a collar on the dog while hunting.
    Last edited by copterdoc; 01-23-2013 at 08:07 AM.

  2. #32
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Copterdoc, I have a lot of respect for you.

    Do you think I am nuts or are you talking about someone else?
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  3. #33
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdgnyc View Post
    Copterdoc, I have a lot of respect for you.

    Do you think I am nuts or are you talking about someone else?
    My post was aimed at the OP.

  4. #34
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Thanks. I feel better now. I have been trying hard to mask my my issues, I don't want to look nuts.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  5. #35
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    All of you people that believe that you won't hunt without a collar, must be referring more about upland hunting, right ? Because I grew up duck hunting in areas (Ark,La, Ms) that you don't put any collar on a dog for safty reasons. To much of a chance for underwater vines, sticks, etc.. to hang on a collar and maybe drown your dog! Hunting flooded bean and rice fields, yes, no problem there ! But not in flooded timber, and especially deep backwater of rivers. And I believe that as hunters, we train to hunt , Not hunt to train. If you can not trust your dog, or can not control your dog while duck hunting, seems the problem is the dog isn't ready to hunt ! You are not going to untrain a good dog by hunting with out a collar. He may need some polishing up before going back to HT's or trials, but common sense should dictate if his "attitude" begans to suffer and what corrections are needed!
    Again, I see no problem with using a collar while pheasant hunting, or upland in general. But it should not be necessary if you have done your job as a trainer correctly! and I have read some of you post that you see no problem with training while hunting. If you are willing to leave your gun at home and just work your dog, that might work. but don't show up with a poorly trained dog and expect others to tolerate poor manners , maybe even spoil a hunt. If I am not grasping what your trying say, please clarify!

  6. #36
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    If my dogs are working, they are wearing an e-collar. The only time they aren't wearing the e-collar, is when they are running in a test, or they are not "at work".
    It's not a safety issue. If the collar is a hazard in the water, a neoprene vest is a much greater hazard.

    And I don't have the collar on the dog, because I am training while hunting.
    It's on the dog, so I don't "lose" as much of what I have already trained the dog to do, or not do.

    The difference between training and hunting is the mission.

    I design my hunting, to take and recover game.
    I design my training, to condition behavior, and teach the dog what I want it to know.

    Dogs learn things while hunting, that I don't want them to know. Not having a collar on the dog, makes that a lot worse.

    I'm not controlling the dog with the collar.
    I control the dog, with it's previously established training.

    The collar is there, so I can maintain some of that previously established training, that I would otherwise lose.
    I'm not hunting to train. But, I don't want to untrain either.

  7. #37
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Talking only upland hunting here.

    Tri Tronics used to sell a "Dummy collar" it was the same weight and size as a real collar,, just no guts or electronics. They said it was for Hunting..

    I dont want to burn dogs when upland hunting, esecially when the dog is "hot" on scent and tracking a bird/birds.. I dont want any negative association with finding birds..

    I dont think it wise to Upland hunt a dog untill its ready...... I think we all know what that means.

    So,, wear a collar/ dummy ect,, but leave the transmitter at home..

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    Last edited by MooseGooser; 01-23-2013 at 12:04 PM.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    sportnclays said:
    don't show up with a poorly trained dog and expect others to tolerate poor manners
    The interpolation "from wearing an e-collar" to "being poorly trained" is nothing more than an emotional response to justify a personal choice (bias). You have no data to support that comment......using my dogs. The premise that if my hunting dog wears an e-collar he/she is poorly trained is purely conjecture on your part. You just don't know.......which at best means you are searching for validation by grasping at straws.

    To make sure we are clear on this, interpolation is the process of extending actual data into an unknown "field" and assuming it will hold true. The problem is there is no "actual data" to begin with.....only personal bias and emotional reactions.

    That's why two people can stand in front of a picture and have very different interpretations. Unfortunately (or not) what you "see" may not be what you "get".

    I think George said it best...
    I feel better now. I have been trying hard to mask my issues. I don't want to look "nuts".
    Last edited by KwickLabs; 01-23-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwickLabs View Post
    The interpolation "from wearing an e-collar" to "being poorly trained" is nothing more than an emotional response to justify a personal choice (bias).
    I'd agree with you somewhat if the collar is a personal choice. However I have been hunting with a great many poor mannered dogs that absolutely need an e-collar to be controlled on a hunt, or be semi-mannered companions in a duck blind at all. I'd hazard to say the vast majority of dogs I've hunted with, if the e-collar must be used to control a dog it is absolutely a crutch covering up either poor or inadequate training and not simply a personal bias.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 01-23-2013 at 12:40 PM.
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  10. #40
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    I was just out for chukar yesterday. An hour in my dog flushed out a mule deer. I've never seen my dog so excited...she was jumping out of her skin...If not for her collar she would have chased that muley to the mountaintops. You just can't train for that. We got three nice birds too.

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