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Thread: Retired marks on water, on land

  1. #21
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Dutchman View Post
    So, Howard, in both cases you are going to handle, but if the dog is being lazy (i.e. trying to run around a pond on a long entry after the dog has been decheated), you're going to handle AND CORRECT, but if the dog is still being decheated, or if the dog may not understand the concept, you're more likely to just handle. Does that sound about right?

    Also, am I safe in assuming that you're talking about a sit, "no", nick, cast type of correction?
    Pretty much, do it one way for a 5 year old "finished" dog and another way for the 2 year old still learning dog. The rub is what to do on the murkier setups, or does the dog have enough experience to have generalized whatever the setup concept is.
    Last edited by Howard N; 01-23-2013 at 03:26 PM.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post

    IMO Steve is right with little dogs. You handle for months teaching the concepts that they have to know to become big dogs. But there comes a time with advanced derby dogs and during the dog's Q career that you make the dog responsible for decisions and not make every decision for him. At that time it's training not teaching. True in training you go back and forth teaching then training then teaching again but you are advancing the dog further and further making him responsible for stuff that was new a month(s) ago.

    In general, if you think your dog knows it then make a correction when you handle. If you don't think the dog has had enough repetitions to generalize the concept or the concept is vague in this setup then handle. I try to err on the dog's side and handle without corrections if I have doubt, but I feel that I am doing harm to the dog's training if I don't make the correction when the dog decides to do the wrong thing when he knows what the right decision is.
    A very good post....Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  3. #23
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Great thread. Thanks Steve and Howard. Lots of info. Copterdoc yes Lardy's TRM is excellent.
    So Howard, through repetition, the dog learns the concept and then is supposed to be able to generalize in all places? that concept and that is why it is valuable to train in so many different areas you can?
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    That's the goal Mary Lynn. Reality raises his ugly head and nobody's training is perfect.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    Great thread. Thanks Steve and Howard. Lots of info. Copterdoc yes Lardy's TRM is excellent.
    So Howard, through repetition, the dog learns the concept and then is supposed to be able to generalize in all places? that concept and that is why it is valuable to train in so many different areas you can?

    This is where it takes a good read on your dog ..when do they have it figured out ...Most trainers are too quick to jump to that conclusion I believe....How many times have you heard it said " He knows that ,he is just ******* me....!!! Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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