Retired marks on water, on land

[Howard N]

So, Howard, in both cases you are going to handle, but if the dog is being lazy (i.e. trying to run around a pond on a long entry after the dog has been decheated), you're going to handle AND CORRECT, but if the dog is still being decheated, or if the dog may not understand the concept, you're more likely to just handle. Does that sound about right?

Also, am I safe in assuming that you're talking about a sit, "no", nick, cast type of correction?

Pretty much, do it one way for a 5 year old "finished" dog and another way for the 2 year old still learning dog. The rub is what to do on the murkier setups, or does the dog have enough experience to have generalized whatever the setup concept is.

[steve schreiner]

IMO Steve is right with little dogs. You handle for months teaching the concepts that they have to know to become big dogs. But there comes a time with advanced derby dogs and during the dog's Q career that you make the dog responsible for decisions and not make every decision for him. At that time it's training not teaching. True in training you go back and forth teaching then training then teaching again but you are advancing the dog further and further making him responsible for stuff that was new a month(s) ago.

In general, if you think your dog knows it then make a correction when you handle. If you don't think the dog has had enough repetitions to generalize the concept or the concept is vague in this setup then handle. I try to err on the dog's side and handle without corrections if I have doubt, but I feel that I am doing harm to the dog's training if I don't make the correction when the dog decides to do the wrong thing when he knows what the right decision is.

A very good post....Steve S

[Mary Lynn Metras]

Great thread. Thanks Steve and Howard. Lots of info. Copterdoc yes Lardy's TRM is excellent.
So Howard, through repetition, the dog learns the concept and then is supposed to be able to generalize in all places? that concept and that is why it is valuable to train in so many different areas you can?

[Howard N]

That's the goal Mary Lynn. Reality raises his ugly head and nobody's training is perfect.

[steve schreiner]

Great thread. Thanks Steve and Howard. Lots of info. Copterdoc yes Lardy's TRM is excellent.
So Howard, through repetition, the dog learns the concept and then is supposed to be able to generalize in all places? that concept and that is why it is valuable to train in so many different areas you can?

This is where it takes a good read on your dog ..when do they have it figured out ...Most trainers are too quick to jump to that conclusion I believe....How many times have you heard it said " He knows that ,he is just ******* me....!!! Steve S