The question is, what did the dog associate that indirect pressure with?
Was it the cast refusal that it just gave you?
Was it the bank that it just beached on?
Was it the bird boy, that he was heading towards?
We have to be careful.
Even though the pressure we are using to punish is indirect, it can still punish the wrong thing.
Last edited by Jon Couch; 01-24-2013 at 07:10 PM.
Duck Creek Kennels
"It's very important to constantly analyze what you are doing and whether your dogs are being good or bad because of what you are doing or in spite of what you are doing." Mike Lardy
That does allow the collar to be used as positive reinforcement for sitting to the whistle.
However, you can't forget that when you apply reinforcement using collar pressure, you are ALWAYS applying indirect pressure at the same time.
We can't afford to punish the act of fetching, with indirect pressure.
So, before we can safely apply positive reinforcement on sit with the e-collar in the field, we need to have also conditioned the dog to fetch in response to collar pressure.
I did a little demo today for a number of folks involved in a positive only training program for working dogs. I had to use some compulsion from the e-collar to maintain my training and with the exception of a minor head twitch that the head trainer did notice, the rest of the crowd had no idea. No screaming, no jumping, no wailing, just re-enforcement of a known behavior.
So are you saying CC is a by product of OC ? I don't know. I'm trying to assimilate this info but I'm actually more confused now than when I woke up this morning.
CC seems to have an anticipation factor,,,, No? Is this because it has been conditioned through OC,, ?
John 5 :30
I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus
I think all of our dog's conditioned responses are built using this this instinct, whether we as trainers realize it or not.