Difference is !
Ivan Pavlov never had a collar.
One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever
Actually Bill when we start to talk about the similarity or difference between a marker and negative re-enforcement, it's a completely different discussion.
You're right, there's definitely an association. Turning of the pressure would be the same as the food/toy on the other side of the equation.
I suppose the marker is just a step in the chain that happens to be missing when we use -r.
Along the same lines, you should be able to condition an association between a collar correction and a particular whistle tone or trill through consistent application. Once the association is made you should be able to maintain it with intermittent application of the collar and associated whistle tone. Ultimately, you should be able to get the desired response from just the conditioned whistle tone in situations where the dog does not have the collar on. I am sure people do this already but I do not consciously make it part of my training program. I do use whistle modulation to communicate with the dog.
When a dog knows sit-to-flush, and a bird gets up, it can be held to a high enough standard that sit is enforceable with the collar, without the command being given.][/QUOTE]
Dog sampling a pile of birds on a blind. Push button ---dog returns
Dog drops bird on his way back from retrieve,,dog is screwing around---push button dog picks up bird and straightens his act out.
Dog returns after retrieve--- handler starts BSing-- dog veers off because of handlers lack of focus-handler wakes up-- handle rpushes button---dog returns to heel
Dog rolls bird in mouth--handler pushes button---dog stops rolling
It works for any well conditioned response in context
John 5 :30
I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus