The question is, what did the dog associate that indirect pressure with?
Was it the cast refusal that it just gave you?
Was it the bank that it just beached on?
Was it the bird boy, that he was heading towards?
We have to be careful.
Even though the pressure we are using to punish is indirect, it can still punish the wrong thing.
Last edited by Jon Couch; 01-24-2013 at 08:10 PM.
Duck Creek Kennels
"It's very important to constantly analyze what you are doing and whether your dogs are being good or bad because of what you are doing or in spite of what you are doing." Mike Lardy
That does allow the collar to be used as positive reinforcement for sitting to the whistle.
However, you can't forget that when you apply reinforcement using collar pressure, you are ALWAYS applying indirect pressure at the same time.
We can't afford to punish the act of fetching, with indirect pressure.
So, before we can safely apply positive reinforcement on sit with the e-collar in the field, we need to have also conditioned the dog to fetch in response to collar pressure.
I did a little demo today for a number of folks involved in a positive only training program for working dogs. I had to use some compulsion from the e-collar to maintain my training and with the exception of a minor head twitch that the head trainer did notice, the rest of the crowd had no idea. No screaming, no jumping, no wailing, just re-enforcement of a known behavior.
So are you saying CC is a by product of OC ? I don't know. I'm trying to assimilate this info but I'm actually more confused now than when I woke up this morning.
CC seems to have an anticipation factor,,,, No? Is this because it has been conditioned through OC,, ?
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Psalms 12: 8
The wicked walk on every side when the vilest men are exulted
Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
"Power is of two kinds. One is obtained through the fear of punishment and the other by acts of love. Power based on love is a thousand times more effective and permanent than the one derived from fear of punishment." Mahatma Gandhi
I think all of our dog's conditioned responses are built using this this instinct, whether we as trainers realize it or not.