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Thread: How do you train/handle young dog on this concept?

  1. #1
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Default How do you train/handle young dog on this concept?

    I've seen these in a couple derbies, my 2 year old follows her nose, what to do?

    1. G1 is thrown first, it is the "long bird."
    2. G2 is the "go bird."
    3. Gunners are not technically retired but are sitting behind shrubs.
    4. Dog goes for "go bird" but winds "long bird" before it gets to go bird.

    I hope my drawing is legible. Distance to G1 > Distance to G2.

    Renee P

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    Primary select and get the short bird first ...Seen this at a derby back in the early 80's at Nashville ...The dogs that left the line to get the short bird was lost when it came time to go for the long bird...It takes a good dog to ignore its nose and run by one ...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Train on it. When the dog lifts his head and starts going to G1, blow a whistle and handle to G2. When he comes in with G2 line him up and send for G1. I then repeat as a double. Some people don't repeat but I do and this is a place where I think it's very appropriate. Go to other places and set it up. Train on this as it is a skill they'll need all their career.
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    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Train on it. When the dog lifts his head and starts going to G1, blow a whistle and handle to G2. When he comes in with G2 line him up and send for G1. I then repeat as a double. Some people don't repeat but I do and this is a place where I think it's very appropriate. Go to other places and set it up. Train on this as it is a skill they'll need all their career.
    That is about the exact answer I would give. I would also work this concept for several days to a week in a row in different areas, teaching as singles and rerunning as a double. Give it a break for a bit and then put it in your training rotation until the concept is burned into their brain
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
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    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. I was worried about over-handling, thought maybe I should use bird boy help to keep her going to G2.

    So my training alone method has been to plant a bird at G1, throw a bird as G2 and retire. If she winds G1 bird and starts going for it, I hey hey her.

    If over handling is not an issue, I will try what you all suggest with my launchers. Edit: I guess I could throw a double myself as a walk back---easier than messing with launchers.

    Thanks again!
    Last edited by mitty; 01-24-2013 at 06:12 AM. Reason: added detail
    Renee P

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    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    Primary select and get the short bird first ...Seen this at a derby back in the early 80's at Nashville ...The dogs that left the line to get the short bird was lost when it came time to go for the long bird...It takes a good dog to ignore its nose and run by one ...Steve S
    I don't understand. The short bird is the go bird (the last bird thrown), so if you primary select wouldn't you be sending the dog to get the long bird first?
    Renee P

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I was worried about over-handling, thought maybe I should use bird boy help to keep her going to G2.

    So my training alone method has been to plant a bird at G1, throw a bird as G2 and retire. If she winds G1 bird and starts going for it, I hey hey her.

    If over handling is not an issue, I will try what you all suggest with my launchers. Edit: I guess I could throw a double myself as a walk back---easier than messing with launchers.

    Thanks again!
    when you say plant a bird at G1 do you mean throw a mark at G1 and the throw the mark at G2 ? Why retire...you can do a remote send and if the dog switches you can physically cut the dog off from G1..(guessing thats what you mean by throwing the double as a walk back)
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    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    when you say plant a bird at G1 do you mean throw a mark at G1 and the throw the mark at G2 ? Why retire...you can do a remote send and if the dog switches you can physically cut the dog off from G1..(guessing thats what you mean by throwing the double as a walk back)
    I'm believe my dog does ok at marks like these, when the gunners are out.

    I think she is not trusting her line on the way to G2 when the gunners are out of sight, so I am retiring them.

    Dog might do perfect line to G2 bird...she's within in a few feet of it...when suddenly she gets a nose full of the G1 bird. She thinks: oh, there it is! and wants to go get the G1 bird. I am certain that she thinks the bird she smells and wants to go get is G2 bird. Wrong.

    So I need to teach her to trust her marking and the line she took, to keep going and ignore the scent. To do so I have been throwing a single for her, doing a remote send, retiring. On the way to the bird I throw, she winds a bird I hid out there (not a mark). She either keeps going to the mark I threw or caves to the scent from the hidden bird.

    I hope this explanation makes sense. Hmmm.
    Last edited by mitty; 01-24-2013 at 07:29 AM.
    Renee P

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    I don't understand. The short bird is the go bird (the last bird thrown), so if you primary select wouldn't you be sending the dog to get the long bird first?
    1. G1 is thrown first, it is the "long bird."
    2. G2 is the "go bird."
    3. Gunners are not technically retired but are sitting behind shrubs.
    4. Dog goes for "go bird" but winds "long bird" before it gets to go bird.

    The answer to your question is YES..but the dogs nose is going to over ride the set up...In essence can your dog come back and do a check down bird...If you see most dogs falling into the trap of using their nose ,yours probably will too..so go with the dog..Get the one it is probably going to get any way ...I'm talking test day ...not training day ....A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush....As Howard stated ,All you can do is handle in training ...or... teach a check down bird...I always teach this early in their double learning days....Go short long one time and then repeat in it as a go long then short...In the hunting world or h/t game it is very common to go long on the first bird and the check down for the later birds...Just as it is in the f/t game of shooting the flyer last as a long bird with a short retired ....Steve S


    " On the way to the bird I throw, she winds a bird I hid out there (not a mark). She either keeps going to the mark I threw or caves to the scent from the hidden bird." mitty You have created what I would call a poison bird ...A lot different than a double being thrown by gunners...Teaching a dog to ignore scent can be a big job...It is usually done when teaching dogs to run blinds with poison birds....Steve S
    Last edited by steve schreiner; 01-24-2013 at 09:07 AM. Reason: an addition
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I was worried about over-handling, thought maybe I should use bird boy help to keep her going to G2. !




    I would rather handle than bird boy help in this situation. A handle is more of a correction than help which I think would be best in this situation.

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