The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 62

Thread: How do you train/handle young dog on this concept?

  1. #11
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    2,277

    Default

    The scenario in my sketch was a water series in a derby I ran. Two long swims, gunners are sitting behind shrubs.

    My dog took a beautiful line to the go bird (G2). She gets on shore, she's just a few feet from the bird when I see her stop and sniff the air; she then merrily trots down the shore and picks up the wrong bird. When it came time to send her for the 2nd bird, she wanted to pick up the bird she already got. She obviously thought the first bird she retrieved was the bird thrown by G2.

    This is why I was thinking bird boy help, as she is lost and not being self employed.

    Her poison bird skills are much better now than then, so maybe that will help.
    Last edited by mitty; 01-24-2013 at 03:19 PM. Reason: typo
    Renee P

  2. #12
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Far Northern California
    Posts
    1,287

    Default

    Great thread topic, Renee!

  3. #13
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Cornish Utah
    Posts
    1,413

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I was worried about over-handling, thought maybe I should use bird boy help to keep her going to G2.

    So my training alone method has been to plant a bird at G1, throw a bird as G2 and retire. If she winds G1 bird and starts going for it, I hey hey her.

    If over handling is not an issue, I will try what you all suggest with my launchers. Edit: I guess I could throw a double myself as a walk back---easier than messing with launchers.

    Thanks again!






    If you throw the double yourself and walk back you are adding a lot to the senerio for a young dog. I would rather fix the problem before adding to it.
    As far as getting "lost" I would say the dog was not lost or self employed on the first bird. She just made a wrong decision at a crucial point I would handle instead of help. No collar correction the handle is correction enough. On the second bird she was "lost" I would help but then again if you handle on the first bird and pick it up she would not likely get lost on the second. To me this would be truely showing her what she did wrong.
    Last edited by Steve Shaver; 01-24-2013 at 10:25 AM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    698

    Default

    Teach the reverse double (short #1, long #2) before/while you teach the conventional double. Start wide spread so the short is not conflicting with the long. Running past a fall or scent is a fundamental skill any field trial dog or hunting dog for that matter needs. Separate your guns by at least 100yds in distance so it's black and white to the dog. Once the dog is proficient with that teach the conventional double. Remember you can over due anything! You can also teach the concept with hand thrown bumpers to start, throw a short and then throw one long. Progress so the dog is running over the top of the short to get the long.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Cornish Utah
    Posts
    1,413

    Default

    Your question was "How would you train/handle a young dog on this concept". My answers above would be assuming the dog has been TAUGHT the concept first. In teaching I would start off short doing singles past a bag full of birds in plain sight and down wind then add to it as you progress. You could start with the bag of birds quite a ways off the line to the mark and gradually move it closer.

  6. #16
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    2,277

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Shaver View Post
    Your question was "How would you train/handle a young dog on this concept". My answers above would be assuming the dog has been TAUGHT the concept first. In teaching I would start off short doing singles past a bag full of birds in plain sight and down wind then add to it as you progress. You could start with the bag of birds quite a ways off the line to the mark and gradually move it closer.
    This sort of what I was doing with my stand alones, only the bag of birds was hidden from the dog and I was retired. I will back up a few steps and make sure she can do this.

    Yesterday when I posted I had visions of working on this some more but today...it is 20 and raining! My car is coated with ice. Dog training looks like something that is never gonna happen.
    Renee P

  7. #17
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    2,277

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff evans View Post
    Teach the reverse double (short #1, long #2) before/while you teach the conventional double. Start wide spread so the short is not conflicting with the long. Running past a fall or scent is a fundamental skill any field trial dog or hunting dog for that matter needs. Separate your guns by at least 100yds in distance so it's black and white to the dog. Once the dog is proficient with that teach the conventional double. Remember you can over due anything! You can also teach the concept with hand thrown bumpers to start, throw a short and then throw one long. Progress so the dog is running over the top of the short to get the long.
    I'm wondering if I need to do more of these.
    Renee P

  8. #18
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    6,843

    Default

    Surprising that this has stayed on topic. There are many directions it could take based on a test which is deliberately set up so that the dog winds the memory bird enroute to the last bird down. I for one would not spend much time working on that with a young dog. As someone wiser than me once said "just because you have to eat s@it from time to time doesn't mean you should practice it".

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    171

    Default A Judge's reaction -

    As a derby judge I score this as a bad test. Yes ... training, testing and derby
    tests have 'evolved' for all the reasons known and imagined, but there are givens
    that ask for moderation not judging by elimination.

    First of all Mitty's example is about derby dogs ... dogs under 24 months; dogs
    owned and handled by a wide range of folks ... 1st timers, seasoned handlers &
    pros. Derby judges should 'sample' the field with moderate opening tests and
    "progress from there". Terrain/quality of water, access to each and a knowledge
    of local weather/wind patterns all are vital when planning tests for young dogs.

    Mitty's pattern is an abbreviated version of an on-line set of marks - usually 3 -
    and regardless of sequence in the example is an 'out-of-order' double, which to
    a dog (particularly a young dog) looks equal distance. The TRAP is the cross wind.

    This test was a favorite of Bing Gruenwald's & I watched great marking All-Age
    dogs blow thru the falls, switch, handle and get picked up.

    This test whether as a double or as a triple must be taught as singles with the
    guns out, vary the sequence and after dog has learned the test repeat as
    multiples ... in various locations.

    As a derby test judge over the years - 48 minor stakes, 30 derbies - I have never
    trapped young dogs requiring them to run past wind blown scent from a shorter
    gun/fall to a longer fall.

    If an out-of-order test for derby dogs is to be considered there must be adequate
    space between the lines to falls and if 'out-of-order' the short fall must be thrown
    the opposite direction so the dog going first for the longer bird is lining/running
    away from the wind blown scent.

    With the unfortunate advent in 1992 (thereabouts) of RAC's Proposal 3, a derby
    dog handling is mandatory elimination. Therefore, judges today, notwithstanding
    the propensity for 200 & 300 yard derby marks, should strive to set tests that
    reward marking, memory, style along with fair and reasonable response (by judges)
    as to handler movement/conduct on the line.

    Bill Connor

  10. #20
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    2,277

    Default

    I don't want to bash the trial, I want to learn how to compete.

    I learned a lot about handling and holes in my training by entering a few derbies. After each one I worked real hard to get better, then entered another to see where I was at.

    We got a lot better. If this concept isn't something I shouldn't worry about, I appreciate that advice. But if this is something I'm going to see in the all age stakes I want to train my dog for it. We have aged out of derby, I will run her in quals this spring.

    Thanks all, this is helpful.
    Last edited by mitty; 01-24-2013 at 07:49 PM. Reason: typo (should changed to shouldn't)
    Renee P

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •