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Thread: How do you train/handle young dog on this concept?

  1. #21
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    I don't want to bash the trial, I want to learn how to compete.

    I learned a lot about handling and holes in my training by entering a few derbies. After each one I worked real hard to get better, then entered another to see where I was at.

    We got a lot better. If this concept isn't something I should worry about, I appreciate that advice. But if this is something I'm going to see in the all age stakes I want to train my dog for it. We have aged out of derby, I will run her in quals this spring.

    Thanks all, this is helpful.
    read posts # 19 and 20 again....they both agree its a poorly done test,and as Bill alluded to in his post the TRAP was the Crosswind.....will you see that again ? absolutely...in many different forms and permutations.....But as Jeff E. alluded to in his post ,his solution is probably the most efficient to teach your dog to not switch on a multiple set of marks
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  2. #22
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    If dog does not establish a hunt, is it a switch? I don't think so. Dog in this scenario did not establish a hunt. So I am confused by advice telling me to train my dog not to switch.

    Maybe it is just semantics, but it has me confused.

    (From RTF's GOT: Switch - A dawg is sent to mark, establishes a hunt, then leaves that area and establishes a hunt in the area of another fall.)
    Renee P

  3. #23
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    If dog does not establish a hunt, is it a switch? I don't think so. Dog in this scenario did not establish a hunt. So I am confused by advice telling me to train my dog not to switch.

    Maybe it is just semantics, but it has me confused.

    (From RTF's GOT: Switch - A dawg is sent to mark, establishes a hunt, then leaves that area and establishes a hunt in the area of another fall.)
    You can argue all day long about whether its a switch or not....but in the FT world STRAIGHT LINES win field trials, going toward one bird and then changing direction to another bird is not an example of a straight line
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  4. #24
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    I'm just trying to understand as best I can!

    Renee P

  5. #25
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    ... in the FT world STRAIGHT LINES win field trials, ....


    I disagree with this comment, which is often made here.
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuckkiller View Post
    As a derby judge I score this as a bad test. Yes ... training, testing and derby
    tests have 'evolved' for all the reasons known and imagined, but there are givens
    that ask for moderation not judging by elimination.

    First of all Mitty's example is about derby dogs ... dogs under 24 months; dogs
    owned and handled by a wide range of folks ... 1st timers, seasoned handlers &
    pros. Derby judges should 'sample' the field with moderate opening tests and
    "progress from there". Terrain/quality of water, access to each and a knowledge
    of local weather/wind patterns all are vital when planning tests for young dogs.

    Mitty's pattern is an abbreviated version of an on-line set of marks - usually 3 -
    and regardless of sequence in the example is an 'out-of-order' double, which to
    a dog (particularly a young dog) looks equal distance. The TRAP is the cross wind.

    This test was a favorite of Bing Gruenwald's & I watched great marking All-Age
    dogs blow thru the falls, switch, handle and get picked up.

    This test whether as a double or as a triple must be taught as singles with the
    guns out, vary the sequence and after dog has learned the test repeat as
    multiples ... in various locations.

    As a derby test judge over the years - 48 minor stakes, 30 derbies - I have never
    trapped young dogs requiring them to run past wind blown scent from a shorter
    gun/fall to a longer fall.

    If an out-of-order test for derby dogs is to be considered there must be adequate
    space between the lines to falls and if 'out-of-order' the short fall must be thrown
    the opposite direction so the dog going first for the longer bird is lining/running
    away from the wind blown scent.

    With the unfortunate advent in 1992 (thereabouts) of RAC's Proposal 3, a derby
    dog handling is mandatory elimination. Therefore, judges today, notwithstanding
    the propensity for 200 & 300 yard derby marks, should strive to set tests that
    reward marking, memory, style along with fair and reasonable response (by judges)
    as to handler movement/conduct on the line.
    Bill Connor

    Bingo!!!

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

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  7. #27
    Senior Member Jon Couch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Surprising that this has stayed on topic. There are many directions it could take based on a test which is deliberately set up so that the dog winds the memory bird enroute to the last bird down. I for one would not spend much time working on that with a young dog. As someone wiser than me once said "just because you have to eat s@it from time to time doesn't mean you should practice it".
    Ed I had to write that one down! Classic!
    Jon Couch
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    I'm just trying to understand as best I can!





    HAHA yer purty funny Renee.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    I am by far most in agreement with EdA. The concept is surely valid to train on MINUS THE WIND. But when some factor, or set of factors clearly makes a test a trick, and unfair, why practice trash?

    Evan
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I am by far most in agreement with EdA. The concept is surely valid to train on MINUS THE WIND. But when some factor, or set of factors clearly makes a test a trick, and unfair, why practice trash?

    Evan
    I don't want to practice trash but who hasn't had the wind change direction in the middle of a test/trial? Shouldn't you be prepared?

    I just order your materials by the way!

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