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Thread: Fear of Gun Control

  1. #131
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Here are two works of art, that I think explain very clearly the second ammendment.












    In the first, it shows the good guys on the left. The armed militia (people)defending itself from a standing army of a government.


    The second , I beleive is very interesting.

    It shows a "special" Militia. Those militia members were called Klansmen. They are all armed... It aslo shows a group of Blacks on the right. They are armed also.

    In between them is a constable of the law, trying to keep peace. Once he leaves,,the Blacks become vunerable to hate. Without weapons, guns ,(look closely) Bayonetts in theis case,, they would be most definiatly violated.

    The second ammendment guarentees us ALLLLL to the right to keep and bear arms. Not just "special", "approved", or "typed".

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 01-30-2013 at 10:42 AM.
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  2. #132
    Senior Member Socks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade View Post
    Dustin, my argument is about the big push on the assault rifles, bush masters, ar 15. If one is talking about these types of guns to defend ones self I don't see the logic in the argument.
    I asked those questions to try to point out the fact the defending ones self in those areas of vulnerability one would more than likely not have one of those weapons available at the time of attack.
    When one is a sleep, more times than not one would have a hand gun in close proximity.
    When one is in his/her car one would most likely have a hand gun in the glove box.
    When one is walking down the street one would most likely be carrying a hand gun.

    To use the reasoning of defense for the purpose of owning the above mentioned weapon in my opinion is off the mark.

    As I mentioned, if I'm sitting at home waiting for them to come and I am prepared then yes, I would like more power. But I am not going to live my life in fear sitting waiting for that to happen.
    Wade, I will try to be polite.

    I don't own a pistol and not because I don't want one. I've just spent my money on traditional hunting guns. I've got an unloaded shotgun by my bed that has a tubular magazine. Have you ever tried loading a shotgun when you think crap is hitting the fan? I have and it sucks because when your hands are shaking and your fingers don't work right it's hard to load a 3" shell let alone more than just one. I've done this action so many times while hunting I can't count it and I've reloaded under the stress of trying to hit birds with no problem. BUT, when I thought someone was getting ready to break into my house with my then 1 year old I was crapping bricks. As it turned out the sherriff turned up and looked around and no one was there, but my BBQ grill was moved to the other side of the deck.

    I'm an engineer and I'm trained to be logical. After that I thought things through. I made several tactical mistakes that night and one of them could have cost me my life and that of my kid if there had been an actual break in. One was I didn't listen to my dog who growled at something outside. He never growls or barks. Two, I cleared my house while I left my kid upstairs alone while he was alseep because my wife was out of town. I can't/won't keep a loaded gun around because I have a young child.

    It's easier to load a clip than a shotgun magazine under stress and adreline(sp?). Firepower is a good thing. i.e. 8 rounds are better than 3 rounds and 30 rounds is better than 8. I found a shotgun that uses a clip, but it in my mind it has reliability problems. Then there's old myth that criminals will run at the sound of a shotgun being racked. Here's my logic. 1st, people are assuming that the bad guys will run and not immediately fire on the sound. 2nd, Why in the hell would I give away the tactical advantage of surprise and stealth in that situation?

    This lead me to wanting a AR-15. I could put the gun up on wall pegs out of reach of my kid and lock up the clips in a small nightstand safe. If necessary (I hope not ever) I insert the clip and pull back the bolt and go. I've decided that I won't clear my house, I'll let the law do that. I've got a part of my house that has become the "kill zone" and you can assume what you want from that term, but let's just say that it'd be in the best interests of a bad guy not to be there. This gets back to more firepower. I want to be able to send as many bullets towards the bad guys as I can to stop the threat before it gets to my family. I'm also assuming there will be more than one bad guy. I would also like my wife to get a pistol for a last defense in the assumption I get taken out. I've talked to her and we've decided to get our CPL's.

    Each person's situation is different so to tell someone that they don't need this or that is in my opinion egotistical or not understanding the someone's situation. Before I could buy a AR-15 the tragedy at Sandyhook happened and we're where we are at now. The above was/is my situation and I've decided what's the best recourse for me and my family. Some people keep loaded guns around, I don't. Some people want a pump shotgun for defense, I don't. Some people don't want a gun, I do and it seems the people that don't want a gun don't want me to have one either. So they want to take away my gun or at the minimum take away some of my options. All the above stays away from the fact that the anti gun people don't want any guns at all, but they will tell you that they don't want to take yours. My advice is to read what happened in the U.K. and Australia to see where they want to go and how they're going to try to do it. If you don't realize that or believe it, well....like I always say you can't make people make a good decision.

    We also haven't even touched the topic of the second amendment.
    Last edited by Socks; 01-30-2013 at 10:44 AM.
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  3. #133
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    And by the way... those muskets in the first photo, were the most advanced of the times..
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  4. #134
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade View Post
    3 quick questions regarding the defense of one self.

    1) What type of gun would one most likely have by his bed in case of a home intruder?

    2) What type of gun would one most likely have in ones car in close proximity to defend ones self?

    3) What type of gun would one have the ability to carry on ones self to fend off an attacker?

    If your answer to any of the 3 is anything but a hand gun your either a liar or dillusional. To defend ones self with a Bush Master or any other "assault rifle" is truly a bogus argument in the way we go about our daily lives. Now, if you want to say that your sitting at the window waiting 24/7 for any intruder. well then I am in complete agreement with you. However if that is the case what type of life are you living? A life of fear!!
    1 - 9mm in the bedstand but a 40 caliber AR style Colt less than 5 seconds a way. If I had my choice it would be the Colt as there is NOTHING better at stopping home intruder(s). Joe Biden might like a shotgun for this but I prefer the firepower and what the heck does Biden know anyway? Besides, shotguns create to much of a mess to clean up afterwards. I want to stop the intruder(s) while not destroying my home.

    2 In the car, Walther .38.

    3 Conceal Carry depends on what I am wearing. I carry either my Walther .38 or Walther .22 with hollow point LR's.

    No one should have the right to dictate to others what weapons they prefer for defense of self or Liberty.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Turner View Post
    It is deplorable that a government would give F16's (and billions of dollars) to a terrorist organization, whose country is in the midst of a civil war, and at the same time restrict the 2nd Amendment rights of their own law abiding citizens.

    Our government is capable of anything and if this doesn't cause fear, then we deserve what's coming.
    Bingo !

    There have been some really good posts on this thread.
    charly

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  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    No one should have the right to dictate to others what weapons they prefer for defense of self or Liberty.

    Truer words were never spoken.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    No one should have the right to dictate to others what weapons they prefer for defense of self or Liberty.
    Quote Originally Posted by dixidawg View Post
    Truer words were never spoken.
    Isn't the real fear here the fear of politicians? I cant stand the thought of these guys toying with any of our rights and I believe our founding fathers designed the second amendment to protect us from politicians!

    “The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money,” the French philosopher and historian Alexis de Tocqueville once said.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade View Post
    3 quick questions regarding the defense of one self.

    1) What type of gun would one most likely have by his bed in case of a home intruder?

    2) What type of gun would one most likely have in ones car in close proximity to defend ones self?

    3) What type of gun would one have the ability to carry on ones self to fend off an attacker?

    If your answer to any of the 3 is anything but a hand gun your either a liar or dillusional. To defend ones self with a Bush Master or any other "assault rifle" is truly a bogus argument in the way we go about our daily lives. Now, if you want to say that your sitting at the window waiting 24/7 for any intruder. well then I am in complete agreement with you. However if that is the case what type of life are you living? A life of fear!!
    This question is way to subjective but I can honestly say, I would bring what I believed to be superior firepower for the occasion. No sense in making it a fair fight for the criminal as they do not fight fair. Will they have body armor? Will there be multiple perps? Will I be defending only myself or my family as well? Give me a compact semi-auto rifle and more bullets that I need and my chances of keeping an assailant under duress will most likely be achieved. You surely dont want to give them a chance to fire back once you are provoked! This is probably the same reason cops use more than just hand guns when they feel the situation warrants it. Why pigeon hole yourself when the intruder could care less. Maybe a handgun makes you feel safe, but when it becomes time for kill or be killed, are you really ready for that? By your posts, I dont think so, so maybe your argument should be on how you can dial 911 in all the scenarios you mention. And if that doesn't set off a light bulb, maybe you could pretend you are a single mother who has just had multiple intruders enter her home.

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetrieverNation View Post
    Isn't the real fear here the fear of politicians? I cant stand the thought of these guys toying with any of our rights and I believe our founding fathers designed the second amendment to protect us from politicians!

    “The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money,” the French philosopher and historian Alexis de Tocqueville once said.

    The danger is the politicians become emboldened when they know people have an attitude that it's OK to restrict what guns are available.

  10. #140
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetrieverNation View Post
    This question is way to subjective but I can honestly say, I would bring what I believed to be superior firepower for the occasion. No sense in making it a fair fight for the criminal as they do not fight fair. Will they have body armor? Will there be multiple perps? Will I be defending only myself or my family as well? Give me a compact semi-auto rifle and more bullets that I need and my chances of keeping an assailant under duress will most likely be achieved. You surely dont want to give them a chance to fire back once you are provoked! This is probably the same reason cops use more than just hand guns when they feel the situation warrants it. Why pigeon hole yourself when the intruder could care less. Maybe a handgun makes you feel safe, but when it becomes time for kill or be killed, are you really ready for that? By your posts, I dont think so, so maybe your argument should be on how you can dial 911 in all the scenarios you mention. And if that doesn't set off a light bulb, maybe you could pretend you are a single mother who has just had multiple intruders enter her home.
    Reminds me of the scene in "The Untouchables!"



    Sums the whole mess up nicely.
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