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Thread: Immigration Reform Plan????

  1. #1
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Default Immigration Reform Plan????

    Bipartisan Group Of Senators To Introduce Immigration Plan, Preempt Obama Posted: 01/28/2013 12:01 am EST | Updated: 01/28/2013 9:17 am EST

    Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), shown here on Dec. 28, 2012 in the U.S. Capitol, are both part of a bipartisan group of senators who will announce an immigration blueprint on Monday, Jan. 28, in order to preempt President Obama's speech on the issue on the following day. (Photo by Drew Angerer/Getty Images) .Get Politics Alerts:

    Sign Up ..Follow: Barack Obama , John McCain, Marco Rubio, Congress, Immigration, Barack Obama , Video, Dick Durbin, Chuck Schumer, Immigration Reform, Politics News .WASHINGTON -- A bipartisan group of four Democratic senators and four Republican senators will announce the framework for a comprehensive immigration reform plan on Monday, seeking to jump out in front of President Obama's planned Tuesday speech on immigration.

    Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) and Sen. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.) will join with Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) to promote the plan. Senators will unveil their plan (read the full five-page memo below) at a Monday afternoon press conference in Washington.

    The senators were expected to make an announcement this week, but after news broke last Thursday that Obama would speak Tuesday in Las Vegas about what he wants in immigration legislation, the lawmakers agreed quickly last Friday to hold the event at the beginning of this week. Both Democratic and Republican senators were eager to go before Obama to try to wrest control of the process from the White House, according to Senate aides.

    The group is notable in that it includes leading Senate Democrats like Durbin and Schumer, veteran Republican senators like McCain and Graham, and then Rubio, who was reported to have first joined the bipartisan working group last week, but according to a Rubio aide, was first approached by the others in December and has worked with them since.

    "He's met with them several times since then. Our staffs have shared a lot of paper," the aide said, describing the principles as "consistent with everything that Senator Rubio's been talking about."

    Durbin and Menendez have been insistent that a path to citizenship for the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. is a core part of their approach.

    "Very clearly, having a pathway to earned legalization is an essential element. And I think that we are largely moving in that direction as an agreement," Menendez said on ABC News' "This Week."

    But the bipartisan group has also agreed that before a pathway to citizenship is made available, thresholds must be met on border security and workplace enforcement.

    The draft agreement reads: "Once the enforcement measures have been completed, individuals with probationary legal status will be required to go to the back of the line of prospective immigrants, pass an additional background check, pay taxes, learn English and civics, demonstrate a history of work in the United States, and current employment, among other requirements, in order to earn the opportunity to apply for lawful permanent residency. Those individuals who successfully complete these requirements can eventually earn a green card."

    The border component will include a commission to verify that the border is secure, made up of governors and attorneys general from border states.

    In response to a report in The Hill last week that undocumented immigrants might become eligible for taxpayer-subsidized health care under immigration reform, the Rubio aide also said that the bipartisan group is agreed that undocumented immigrants who might be given a temporary work visa under a new legal framework will not be eligible to receive federal aid.

    The draft language backs this up. "Current restrictions preventing non-immigrants from accessing federal public benefits will also apply to lawful probationary immigrants," it says.

    McCain, also appearing on "This Week," said that the group's proposal is "not that much different from what we tried to do in 2007," when then-President George W. Bush tried to push a set of reforms through Congress.

    Bush's initiative was met with hostility by the conservative wing of the Republican party, who howled about amnesty and brought the initiative down to defeat.

    McCain said that Republican Mitt Romney's loss in the 2012 presidential election, and the fact that McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012 lost increasingly large numbers of Latino voters, has altered the politics of the immigration debate.

    "What's changed is -- honestly, is that there is a new, I think, appreciation on both sides of the aisle -- including maybe more importantly on the Republican side of the aisle -- that we have to enact a comprehensive immigration reform bill," McCain said.

    "Look at the last election. Look at the last election," McCain said. "We are losing dramatically the Hispanic vote, which we think should be ours, for a variety of reasons, and we've got to understand that."

    In the past, figures like McCain -- who is viewed suspiciously by many conservatives - have been unable to convince the GOP base or the media influencers like conservative talk radio that their approach to immigration is not "amnesty."

    But Rubio - who is the son of Cuban immigrants - has had success in ways that other Republicans never have. Just last week he got high praise for his ideas on immigration from talk radio host Mark Levin and Fox News' Lou Dobbs, who both in the past have been outspoken opponents of legalizing undocumented immigrants.

    "He's talking intelligently about a rational, effective, humane response to the issue, and the idea's going to be whether the Republican party has the ability, the capacity and the will to put him in a position so that he can represent the party on the issue," Dobbs said.
    http://www.docstoc.com/docs/14289431...migration-plan
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    So, let's just try some logic on this ... something that seems beyond the grasp of the politicians.

    Why do we have a problem with illegal immigrants? I

    I think states like TX, FL, NM, and NV might say because it's the strain on their social services. After all, would anybody really care if there wasn't some cost involved in having hard-working people going about their business and taking care of themselves? Would anybody even notice? Many who come here for educational reasons overstay their visas and have good jobs here. Are the social services, perhaps, a "magnet" for illegal immigrants whose immigration status is not questioned when they get these services? Anchor babies result in social services for the whole family. Is this a contributing cause as well?

    The govt has told us deportation is impractical since it would be cost prohibitive to find & deport everyone here illegally. I'd imagine that manpower to do so is also a tacit implication of "cost". Yet ... would it cost less to have them all sign up for the new immigration reform plan; check all their background info they submit; and then make a decision on their "amnesty" qualifications? How is this less costly than simply finding them and deporting them?

    If I were an illegal immigrant that did not meet the qualifications for remaining here, would I be eager to step forward and announce my presence to ICE?

    If an illegal will be required to pay fines and back taxes in order to stay, uh ... how much capability does the family getting social services have to pay fines. There are probably no back taxes to pay. The only qualification they may have is that they have no criminal record. Will there be a program to enable these individuals to pay their fines, before their "amnesty" and working permit kicks in?

    If I were an illegal who had no $ to pay the fines, would I be eager to step forward and announce my presence to ICE? If could just continue to receive those social service benefits without such a liability? Or would there be no liability if they were too poor to pay the fines? Would they be deported?

    So, what is the net result of all of this? The criminals and the poor will stay here in the same status they have now, in the shadows and basically unidentified. The immigrants who are educated and have jobs will also qualify to stay & have a path to citizenship.

    So, why not go through the work visas and student visas first, and offer those who remain here illegally the "amnesty". These are the individuals whose initial entry to the US was legal in the first place, but who have a hard time remaining here due to the present immigration system. These individuals are likely to already be paying taxes and supporting themselves without govt assistance. They also have likely learned the language and assimilated into the mainstream of the society and economy. For shouldering that self-responsibility, it doesn't seem outrageous to give them some incentive to remain here legally. That fact has been mentioned before: keep the immigrants who can benefit the US economy and society.

    It is also logical that if the US economy is only creating 150,000 jobs/month, no limitations on immigration will make it more difficult for US citizens to find a job. If the economy begins to grow, then immigration limitations can be tied to the increased job opportunities. As baby boomers retire, more jobs may be available to new/younger workers. This is also a consideration that could be accounted for. However, there are plenty of baby boomers who are finding they cannot afford to retire!

    Do immigration policies favor immigrants from one country over another? If so, why? Should proximity to US borders be the determining factor in immigration favoritism? Should we apportion legal immigration in any way? I'm not sure of that. Should we apportion legal immigration by family ties? or skill levels? Those would be complex questions with equally complex answers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Do immigration policies favor immigrants from one country over another? If so, why? Should proximity to US borders be the determining factor in immigration favoritism? Should we apportion legal immigration in any way? I'm not sure of that. Should we apportion legal immigration by family ties? or skill levels? Those would be complex questions with equally complex answers.
    Those companies that have large numbers of engineers want a larger number to be allowed in. Basically, so they can hold down the wages of the engineers here, yet they profess to wanting curriculum improved in STEM.

    I've worked with engineers from all over the world. In general they are competent individuals but there are certain drawbacks. There is a language barrier, even those who speak English do not do so with the clear enunciation common in the Midwest, but neither do southerners . Because of slot competition in their home countries they sometimes feel to superior to perform certain tasks. Because of cultural differences they spend too much time performing the rituals of establishing position. & many are not comfortable as leaders in their chosen fields.

    You're all probably familiar with the issues plaguing the 787 - what I & the engineers reporting to me did was make those types of problems go away before the units were delivered. Whether one was versed in that discipline did not matter, we would find someone who could provide us an answer on moving the line. We had bosses who had immigrated here from other countries, in general they would find somewhere else to hide until we lead engineers had found the solution. Which in itself was a blessing, sensitive bosses have no place in a discussion to get an issue resolved.

    We need workers here to handle the harvests - a lot of the other attempts are to keep wages in processing lower.

    I don't have a good feeling if McCain is for it .
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    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    I've seen many aspects of the immigration process from being the child of a highly recruited skilled engineer in the 60's to an HR manager running a national search to fill an engineering job (required by law before we could attempt to keep our guy that was a temp visa.)
    MY real question is why do we allow or will allow a border jumping lettuce picker to stay while the taxpayer pays someone to sit on their fat ass and collect taxpayer money when they could get off their fat ass and pick the lettuce if we made them!
    Why do taxpayers have their money taken to give someone a bs socialist pell grant to study stupid stuff like poilitics, ancient basket weaving, black studies(what the heck is that crap) etc.
    Stop all pell grants and if you won't do that make them only for a needed degree.
    Make the welfare leaches pick the lettuce. NO more sitting on their fat asses.
    Make anyone who has a foreign degree take a test (like the CPA) to prove their degree is equal.
    Make every immigrant who wants to stay a real serious English test.
    Make anyone who wants a student loan pass a real serious English test.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  5. #5
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139 View Post
    I've seen many aspects of the immigration process from being the child of a highly recruited skilled engineer in the 60's to an HR manager running a national search to fill an engineering job (required by law before we could attempt to keep our guy that was a temp visa.)
    MY real question is why do we allow or will allow a border jumping lettuce picker to stay while the taxpayer pays someone to sit on their fat ass and collect taxpayer money when they could get off their fat ass and pick the lettuce if we made them!
    Why do taxpayers have their money taken to give someone a bs socialist pell grant to study stupid stuff like poilitics, ancient basket weaving, black studies(what the heck is that crap) etc.
    Stop all pell grants and if you won't do that make them only for a needed degree.
    who are you to decide what is a needed degree, this isnt some socialist country ...at least not yet


    Make the welfare leaches pick the lettuce. NO more sitting on their fat asses.
    Get real you cant make someone do a job its not a prison sentence


    Make anyone who has a foreign degree take a test (like the CPA) to prove their degree is equal.
    You obviously have no idea how advanced some degrees from foreign countries actually are, some of the most brilliant surgeons in the world are carrying degrees from Pakistan,India,Guadalajara MX....

    Make every immigrant who wants to stay a real serious English test.

    Heck half the current population in our high schools cant pass a simple English test
    Make anyone who wants a student loan pass a real serious English test.
    again when the majority cant pass a regular English test you want a student to pass that test



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    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  6. #6
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    My responses in blue
    can;t get the quote within a quote to work so here goes an attempt to reply.
    Pell grants: Personally I think they should all be eliminated and have no problem with fair market loans that must be paid back in full. The only reason I concede anything is that there is a claim that we need as a country more people in certain areas and if the taxpayer must be forced to pay for anyones college degree it must be in an area where there is a need.
    I agree you can't make someone do a job, however their is no reason to pay them to sit on their fat ass. In other words their is no reason to pay them if they refuse an available job.
    Foreign degrees. All I said was make them pass a standard exam. I can tell you that my husband deals every day with people that have a quote "masters" in some IT area from India that don't know their ass from ther elbow.
    As for the English why should we as a country accept the failing English?
    Why is that an excuse for anything?
    I tend to type like crap and goof off on my English on the net, but that does not mean I don't know proper English. Why should we as taxpayers give a pass on knowing something as simple as the English language?
    Set something simple like a tough SAT score on English and math before you get any taxpayer money/
    MAKE IT TOUGH!!!!! No lowering the bar.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  7. #7
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    let me add a few more questions. Why are we letting anyone graduate high school if they can't read and write decent English?
    Why are we letting anyone graduate from high school without basic math skills?
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Not going to bother quoting you because I dont think you have a realistic view of the education system here because your opinion is so clouded with venom and hate

    One of the reasons kids are allowed to pass is because of the Dept of Education, the ACLU, and programs like No Child left Behind..do you have any idea how hard if not impossible it is to fail someone in school and recommend they not advance to the next grade..I have...my ex was/is an elementary school teacher, the kids she thought should be held back a year were rubber stamped to the next year


    The SAT score is just that, a score...it is no guarantee....in elementary school I scored in the upper 2% of the country....my SAT score was average just under 1100..still graduated with honors...

    Until the country wants to enforce English as the official language of the land its hard to hold a standard...but then in steps the ACLU and claims the standard is discriminatory toward the latino community or that its not the ebonics that are practiced in the projects

    I would love to drug test welfare recipients, but that wont happen till hell freezes over..life aint fair...its not supposed to be
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  9. #9
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    Not going to bother quoting you because I dont think you have a realistic view of the education system here because your opinion is so clouded with venom and hate

    One of the reasons kids are allowed to pass is because of the Dept of Education, the ACLU, and programs like No Child left Behind..do you have any idea how hard if not impossible it is to fail someone in school and recommend they not advance to the next grade..I have...my ex was/is an elementary school teacher, the kids she thought should be held back a year were rubber stamped to the next year


    The SAT score is just that, a score...it is no guarantee....in elementary school I scored in the upper 2% of the country....my SAT score was average just under 1100..still graduated with honors...

    Until the country wants to enforce English as the official language of the land its hard to hold a standard...but then in steps the ACLU and claims the standard is discriminatory toward the latino community or that its not the ebonics that are practiced in the projects

    I would love to drug test welfare recipients, but that wont happen till hell freezes over..life aint fair...its not supposed to be
    Why am I clouded with venom and hate? Because I don't want my stolen money wasted?
    Anyone can get a stupid junk degree as long as I am not forced to pay for it.
    I have said the dept of ed should be dumped as it is a waste of taxpayer money.
    So enforce English as the language of the land!!! That has nothing to do with being mean or full of hate.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  10. #10
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    All of your posts are filled with the same hate filled rhetoric, honestly it gets old and tiresome
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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