Lance Armstrong?

[duk4me]

lance armstrong is like the rest of us. he is partially good....partially bad. he seems to allow his competitive interests to take him to places most people would not go. his desire to win and evil charachter is manifested by lying pathologically, sacrficing the lives and careers of others who get in his way and training obsessively and compulsively. since this is a "political forum" we talk about pathological lying and trampling others all the time here. since it is also a dog training forum we know that training obsessively and compulsively are what it takes to win(though we might not talk about it too much lol).

lance did good things, lance did bad things. all in all it is appears he is pretty much a jerk. in my mind being a jerk does not negate the positive things he did.



as to ped's: it infuriates me when i see a guy like phillies hof third baseman mike schmidt come on tv and say, and i paraphrase, "i never knew anything like that was going on in the locker room!" i know that at the same exact time as mike was in a major leauge locker room with the finest trainers and coaches on the planet, little old john mccallie was at a small 2a high school in alabama with a very good sports program. it is simply not plausible that in 1980 i knew what winstrol, dianabol, et al were, understood their effects on performance, was clear on the potential side effects and had access to these drugs and major leauger mike schmidt had "never even heard of such a thing?"

these ped's have been a part of elite athletic performance for a longgggg time. do not let anyone kid you. don't be disappointed in your heros from 1977 through today. THEY ALL DID IT THEN, DO IT NOW AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO IT IN THE FUTURE. sometimes i feel villian jose canseco and i are the only people in the world who understand this?

did lance use ped's to win the tour?.....certainly. did his competitors?.....certainly!
did governor shwartzenneger(sp) use ped's to win 9 mr. olympia titles?......certainly. did his competitors?.......certainly!
did governor jesse "the body" use ped's to be a big imposing wrestler?......certainly. did his competitors?........certainly!
roger?...yep! batters he faced?.....all of them!
on and on and on.........
ALL OF THEM get used to it!

All of them? No I won't get used to it and I hope that the governing bodies do not get used to it either.

[Tom. P.]

All of them? No I won't get used to it and I hope that the governing bodies do not get used to it either.

Post of the day?

[huntinman]

All of them? No I won't get used to it and I hope that the governing bodies do not get used to it either.

Problem is... they don't know how far back to go. The baseball HOF just elected nobody to the hall for the first time. How many members do you think were juiced already? Like John says, some of thes guys have been doing it forever. Guys I played HS footbal with in 1976 were doing steroids... Got scholarships too. I didn't... pretty obvious too, 155 lb safety!

The SB this weekend will have juiced guys playing and the league will look the other way.

[road kill]

"At this point, what difference does it make???"

Lieing is OK now folks..............

[Daniel J Simoens]

Problem is... they don't know how far back to go. The baseball HOF just elected nobody to the hall for the first time. How many members do you think were juiced already? Like John says, some of thes guys have been doing it forever. Guys I playe HS footbal with in 1976 were doing steroids... Got scholarships too. I didn't... pretty obvious too, 155 lb safety!

The SB this weekend will have juiced guys playing and the league will look the other way.

first time since 1996

just because you're small doesn't mean you aren't juicing. not calling you out specifically, just saying.

[roseberry]

tim,

correct, it may not be all using steroids, hgh etc. but did anyone watch the roger maris 61 documentary. to "settle his nerves" he chained smoked throughout the season. should the effects of the drugs in cigarettes disqualify his breaking ruth's single season hr record? he likely couldn't have done it without nicotene? what about amphetamines in sports? was anyone ever not elected into the baseball hof for using "greenies"?

i could not stand barry bonds when he was playing the last ten years of his career. i thought no one deserved to be that much better than everone else. i knew he used steroids but i also knew the majority of his opposition did too. tell me it was not electrifying when bonds comes up, tom glavine pitches away, away, away, away and gets to 2 and 2. he then throws a fastball(87 for glavine) inside and you watch the pitch get deeper and deeper almost in the mitt and as you felt, "tommy has him on the inside lookin'", that big taped knob on that tiny 33" bat pulls through like a bullet faster than anything you have ever seen before and knocks a dude out of a kayak in the bay. i gotta say, i loved that stuff!

what about this: if i ever have a nice dog and we're in the final series of an open and i am nervous......real nervous. i look over and about to get a dog out is say.....al arthur. before taking the dog out i see al get a big ol' dip of copenhagen. even though al has ben here hundreds of times, i think, boy i bet a big ol' dip of copenhagen sure would calm my nerves right now.....but since i am a big pu$$7 tobacco makes me throw up! should i feel al arthur used the effects of drugs to beat me that day?

what about this: say al and i are training together on monday and we get into poison ivy. al rubs on some calmine lotion but is so itchy he can't go to the trial that weekend. i go to the doc and get a medrol(sp) dose pack( steroids) and am able to travel and compete and win that weekend. should i be allowed to compete? did i get an advantage taking steroids?

[road kill]

tim,

correct, it may not be all using steroids, hgh etc. but did anyone watch the roger maris 61 documentary. to "settle his nerves" he chained smoked throughout the season. should the effects of the drugs in cigarettes disqualify his breaking ruth's single season hr record? he likely couldn't have done it without nicotene? what about amphetamines in sports? was anyone ever not elected into the baseball hof for using "greenies"?

i could not stand barry bonds when he was playing the last ten years of his career. i thought no one deserved to be that much better than everone else. i knew he used steroids but i also knew the majority of his opposition did too. tell me it was not electrifying when bonds comes up, tom glavine pitches away, away, away, away and gets to 2 and 2. he then throws a fastball(87 for glavine) inside and you watch the pitch get deeper and deeper almost in the mitt and as you felt, "tommy has him on the inside lookin'", that big taped knob on that tiny 33" bat pulls through like a bullet faster than anything you have ever seen before and knocks a dude out of a kayak in the bay. i gotta say, i loved that stuff!

what about this: if i ever have a nice dog and we're in the final series of an open and i am nervous......real nervous. i look over and about to get a dog out is say.....al arthur. before taking the dog out i see al get a big ol' dip of copenhagen. even though al has ben here hundreds of times, i think, boy i bet a big ol' dip of copenhagen sure would calm my nerves right now.....but since i am a big pu$$7 tobacco makes me throw up! should i feel al arthur used the effects of drugs to beat me that day?

what about this: say al and i are training together on monday and we get into poison ivy. al rubs on some calmine lotion but is so itchy he can't go to the trial that weekend. i go to the doc and get a medrol(sp) dose pack( steroids) and am able to travel and compete and win that weekend. should i be allowed to compete? did i get an advantage taking steroids?

Are these tobacco products banned substances by the sanctioning body?

If so, you have a legitimate complaint.


On the other hand...................

[Tom. P.]

L I enjoyed watching Lance as well as watching some ball player hit a ball a mile.But its the cheating that rubs me wrong.I Why not let them do all the enhancers they want to do but just call it what it is.It would make for some enjoyable entertainment. And now like some players in the NFL open up the possabilities for some hefty lawsuits!

[mngundog]

Anyone know what Ray Lewis is doing this wekend??

Either playing football or murdering someone in a bar, perhaps both, then again maybe he's due to beat up a girlfriend, class act....

[roseberry]

Are these tobacco products banned substances by the sanctioning body?

If so, you have a legitimate complaint.


On the other hand...................

that is my point stan. i am not complaining about the use of these substances because i believe so many are on them the field was/is level. bonds was bonds with everyone taking, bonds would have been bonds with no one taking. same for armstrong!

i also don't feel there is difference in an athlete taking one performance enhancing substance versus another. i personally can't draw the line between the performance enhancements afforded one by caffiene, nicotene, amphet, steroids, testosterone, hgh, etc. i guess because most of this stuff is in our chicken and our kids are wayyyyy bigger than we were we should just ban chicken too!

it is a big bunch of hooey to pin cyclings culture on one villian and major league baseball's culture on a group of ten or so when it is all so much more pervasive.