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Thread: How do I know what training system is best for me

  1. #31
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    He doesn't train with direct pressure like written the book anymore.

    /Paul
    Clint spent an entire week training with him and he admitted there were quite a few things he would change in the book if he could...doesnt take away from the fact that the stuff he teaches holds up over time...much respect for the man
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    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  2. #32
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    I also respect a program that is well done. One that doesn't elicite a ton of questions. The flow charts and videos are easy to follow, and the program doesn't require you to keep purchasing. I have the same TRT program I purchased 12 years ago. And, the person behind it has had actual success using that program. I have added a puppy tape. I actually like Hillman's puppy tape a ton. It's not rocket science, but it focuses a lot on attitude. I also own Attar's common problems DVD.


    While many people claim they trained with Rex, well, the man is dead. He can't refute it - except via a Quija board. There are those who claimed they trained with Rex and never really did.

    Get with someone who knows more than you to train.... they can help put your training materials into perspective.
    Susan

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  3. #33
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    How do I know what training system is best for me?
    Without perspective that is an almost impossible question to answer....which reminds me of a true story.

    Many years ago, the biology department of my high school was assigned the task of deciding which new textbook to purchase. Every teacher had a different opinion. This led to the idea of "let's go to another high school and listen to suggestions from other teachers not bogged down in our conflict".

    The Chicago suburban high school biology text was flashy, very detailed and their teachers were emphatic about how well they and their students related to it. To put this in perspective, our high school was very "diverse". There was a gifted program and the school was located on the "rough side" of town which resulted in a 50% minority student attendance.

    Many of the teachers in our group liked the book.......then one very astute member of the staff asked a simple question. How many of your students are college bound? The reply pretty much spelled out the uselessness of the advice. "Oh, 98% of our students are college bound." Beware of bias advice.

    Perspective is often a harsh taskmaster.

    Three issues should drive the process of picking the first retriever program a person decides to use. First, does what you know about it seem to be easy to read? Are you comfortable with it? Secondly, are there enough "users" of the program that can provide assistance. Another way of saying that is make sure the program is in the same "language" of those that you will be asking for help. Third (and most important), which are you better at...following directions or teaching? Keep in mind the best programs provide more opportunities for learning how to teach.

    The final decision is often enhanced by the relief of saying "I can do this."
    Last edited by KwickLabs; 02-02-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    While many people claim they trained with Rex, well, the man is dead.
    Get with someone who knows more than you to train....
    Your whole post was very good - but I want to comment on the meat -

    I never trained with Carr but seeing some of the products of his program in the 60's & 70's one could not help but be unimpressed. That included both handlers & dogs.

    Over the years I have been very fortunate to have trained with some whose
    Quote Originally Posted by GBurnett
    accomplishments were evidenced by the pelts the had on their cabin walls
    both Am & Pro. The basic is in having sufficient knowledge of background to understand what is happening.

    In my day, we didn't have all the written material & DVD's to guide us. But I did work with some really good trainers & learned by observing. What I do see is a lot of people talking about using this or that but you don't hear of their dog's performance. Is the use of programs a convenient way of placing the blame elsewhere for an animal not reaching one's expectations? Like buying a big name pup to achieve instant credibility .
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  5. #35
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    But I did work with some really good trainers & learned by observing. What I do see is a lot of people talking about using this or that but you don't hear of their dog's performance
    .


    Very True Marvin. The proof is in the puddin'... or the ribbons. So, I will put it out there, I trained 2 QAA dogs, 1 trained the basics on a QAA dog, and then a pro talked me into taking him, 2 of my dogs have HRCH titles, 2 have senior HT titles and master passes, 1 FC has a JH; 1 dog with derby points and qual placements, and did the puppy work on 2 field champions that peed on my floor as 8 week olds. I used TRT. I have been fortunate enough to train with some very good people. I have trained and titled dogs in other performance sports.

    Is the use of programs a convenient way of placing the blame elsewhere for an animal not reaching one's expectations? Like buying a big name pup to achieve instant credibility .
    A big name pup without proper training is still just something that pees on the floor until it's trained...... Pedigree means nothing - it's what you do with it. wouldn't it be cool to buy a pup with a guarantee of being at least an FC?

    It's about getting a program, following it and understanding it.... it's not about pushing buttons on the collar.
    Last edited by JusticeDog; 02-02-2013 at 01:10 PM.
    Susan

    FC Tribute to Justice, JH "Honor"
    FC AFC Contempt of Court "Ruckus"
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    Southland Order In the Court, QAA "Gavel" July 17, 2002- March 24, 2013
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  6. #36
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    I never trained with Carr but seeing some of the products of his program in the 60's & 70's one could not help but be unimpressed. That included both handlers & dogs.
    marvin - Do you think people didn't understand Rexx's program, or that it continued to evolve?
    Susan

    FC Tribute to Justice, JH "Honor"
    FC AFC Contempt of Court "Ruckus"
    Medal Of Honor, QAA "Valor"
    HRCH Kirby's High Sierra, SH, QAA "Kirby"
    HRCH Niki Snowbird, SH, QAA "Niki"
    Southland Order In the Court, QAA "Gavel" July 17, 2002- March 24, 2013
    Southland Rusty Nail - derby points, qual placements "Rusty"
    www.justiceretrievers.com

  7. #37
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grnhd View Post
    Everybody says pick a training system that is right for you and stick to it. I read that all the time on this site. Great advice. How do I know what training system is best for me? I've looked at all of them but the info they give about each is limited. I dont know whats in say, Hillman or Smartfetch other than what it tells me in the add. I cant go out and buy all the available traing systems,I would end up with more money in them than I would have in my pup!
    Maybe my question is,what made you pick the system you picked. What about it did you like over the others and why?
    Clearly, there is only 1 way to train.

    And each of us has shared with you our version of that 1 way!!!

    (please sense the humor here)
    Last edited by road kill; 02-02-2013 at 01:41 PM.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    Very True Marvin. The proof is in the puddin'... or the ribbons. So, I will put it out there, I trained 2 QAA dogs, 1 trained the basics on a QAA dog, and then a pro talked me into taking him, 2 of my dogs have HRCH titles, 2 have senior HT titles and master passes, 1 FC has a JH; 1 dog with derby points and qual placements, and did the puppy work on 2 field champions that peed on my floor as 8 week olds. I used TRT. I have been fortunate enough to train with some very good people. I have trained and titled dogs in other performance sports.
    Susan I am aware of your accomplishments & do not doubt your knowledge. I was only making that statement so the neophyte would have a base. Why would anyone discuss training philosophy with someone who knew nothing?
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Duck Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAYDOG View Post
    I say, look at the responses here, see who out of the Lardy's, Dobbs, Dokken's , Smartwork etc are here giving you free advice and will be available with only a phone call if you purchase their system?? There is only one I know of that will drop what he is doing, answer you call or PM , and try to talk you through it because you bought his system....Evan!! The rest ,I will almost guarantee , will blow you off and never return your call!!
    Not sure about the other programs, but Rick Stawski (Fowl Dawgs) has answered my calls and emails on more than one occasion. I have never met him personally, but you'd never know it based on his honest and timely feedback/assistance.
    Brian Caudle
    Marriner's Lady Piper of Coratank "Piper" JH

  10. #40
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    I received notes from Jeff Finley owner trainer of Topbrass Cotton fame. Jeff had attended a seminar at Rex Carr . Many of the notes were very old and were from former students. Jeff tried to school me in the Program, but, made no sense to me at all. I successfully ruined a couple of promising young Goldens trying to follow the program. In fact I got good at ruining dogs trying to make sense of the Carr methods without having first hand knowledge of Mr. Carr being there to advise me. In 1987 about 11 years later I got a Lab puppy from a litter my brother had leased his bitch out, Lakenheath Kizzie Kay bred to FC/AFC Wilderness Harley to go. She was going to be my first real collar dog. I made contact with a just turned new Field Trial Pro Leslie Karnes. Leslie had the National Derby Champion FC/AFC Donneybrooks St Jude, plus owned a couple of double header winners and National Finalists. She was a student of Rex Carr along with a friend of hers at the time Ah! Judy something her name slips my mind at the moment but believe she had a dog called Cody with a lot of All age points, maybe Dr Ed can help out. Anyway Leslie came back from a winter trip with my girl and Leslie started to school me in the handling of her. Took her home and started to freeze on the casts AFTER GETTING NICKED. It is called clamming, but, didn't know the terminology . Brought her back up to Leslie's and she educated me on how to get out of the problem. She would always say Rex would do this or Rex would do that never giving it in her own name.

    About 7 or 8 years later it started to all make sense to me. Mike Lardy came on the scene put intellectual names on them direct pressure, indirect pressure, basic, transition, advanced etc. It really started to make sense and read those notes again and again . Mike of course went on a winter trip with the late Jim Kappus before he turned pro. Jim was a Carr student of the program. Then the Curtis brothers worked for Kappus. Andy Attar and Pat Burns worked for Mike Lardy before going out on their own. I had put a young FC/AFC Mioaks Criquetpas through basics and then got help from Pat Burns for my advanced work.
    Hmm! I said maybe Mr Carr was on to something. I had a nice new puppy that was ready for basics, ran into a few problems, clamming etc, tried what Leslie through Mr Carr had taught me, it worked. Started the dog In in the Derby got a a few Derby Points and Qual JAM at about 12 or 13 months old. Sold her to Win Purtell she first went to Andy Attar, then to Mike Lardy. Fc/AFC Morgan Le Fae of Buckshot went on to accumulate about 170 all-age points until the end of her career. There were others but thanks to Mike Lardy, Wayne Curtis, Andy Attar, Pat Burns, Leslie Karnes and Mr Carr , who I never met, I now understand the program. Sometimes it takes years, but, Rex Carr is alive and well circa 2013!
    Earl Dillow

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