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Thread: Lardy TRT Indirect Pressure Question

  1. #41
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    Nice job by cd explaining indirect pressure.
    Allen Dillard

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  2. #42
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    If the dog was doing EVERYTHING right except for a slow pick-up, I would give the command fetch, and repeat it, with a nick at the same instant. That way, the indirect pressure correction is most likely to be applied to the dog not fetching.
    Wouldn't the Fetch Fetch nick Fetch be direct pressure

    However, if the dog is shopping bumpers, it's not merely a case of "not fetching". It's also a case of not returning quickly.
    That's a little too convoluted for me. The dog is not fetching (picking up the bird/ bumper/whatever) apply direct pressure with fetch and the collar, once the dog has made the retrieve, if it does not return at a brisk pace then direct presure to here and the collar

    So, I can potentially fix both problems in the same instant, by commanding HERE, and nicking at the same timeIf the dog understands the here-nick, it will return with a bumper, and is not likely to shop the next time.
    What do you do if upon receiving the simultaneous here nick the dog starts in ,without the bird a distinct possibility

    The direct pressure, reinforced the quick return.
    The indirect pressure punished the shopping.
    Could be, but I am not as sure as you are.

    That's what I want the dog to understand it as.
    They don't always understand indirect pressure how I wanted them to understand it.

    In that case, the worst thing I can do, is to repeat the same sequence and expect the dog to miraculously understand it the next time.
    I need to change something.

    Maybe, a sit-nick-fetch will be better understood.
    Maybe, a HERE, with no nick and when the dog gets back to me without a bumper, an ear pinch to the pile will fix the problem.

    The dog tells you what it understood it as.
    I try to shy away from corrections where I am unsure of the probable outcome, so I use a limited amount of indirect pressure when a direct presure correction will apply a pinpoint correction for the infraction..[/QUOTE]

    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 02-05-2013 at 10:16 PM.
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  3. #43
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    Wouldn't the Fetch Fetch nick Fetch be direct pressure?
    Yes. But there is ALWAYS indirect pressure associated with direct pressure. You cannot eliminate it.

    By repeating the command, and then​ applying pressure in conjunction with the repeated command, the indirect pressure is attributed to the dog not complying fast enough.
    It wasn't trying, and it knows that it wasn't trying.

    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    That's a little too convoluted for me. The dog is not fetching (picking up the bird/ bumper/whatever) once the dog has made the retrieve, if it does not return at a brisk pace then direct pressure to here....
    If the dog is shopping, it hasn't made the retrieve.


    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    What do you do if upon receiving the simultaneous here nick the dog starts in ,without the bird a distinct possibility.....
    What bird? I was talking about shopping a pile.


    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    Could be, but I am not as sure as you are.....
    It doesn't matter what you are sure of. What matters, is what the dog is sure of.


    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    I try to shy away from corrections where I am unsure of the probable outcome, so I use a limited amount of indirect pressure when a direct pressure correction will apply a pinpoint correction for the infraction..
    Direct pressure only applies to specific commands that the dog has been conditioned to perform in response to applied pressure.

    For the most part, those are limited to GO/FETCH, STOP, and COME.

    If you have more, great.
    Last edited by copterdoc; 02-05-2013 at 10:29 PM.

  4. #44
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    Direct pressure only applies to specific commands that the dog has been conditioned to perform in response to applied pressure.

    For the most part, those are limited to GO/FETCH, STOP, and COME.

    If you have more, great.
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    Under what circumstance would you not just use direct pressure for shopping or standing over the bird/slow pickup ?

    So as not to complicate things by going off in a lot of different tangents I will simply rephrase the question above.....

    When it comes to infractions pertaining to things having to do with GO/FETCH, STOP, and COME. Why not just stick with direct pressure ?

    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 02-05-2013 at 10:56 PM.
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    So as not to complicate things br going off in a lot of different tangents I will rephrase the question above.....

    When it comes to infractions pertaining to things having to do with GO/FETCH, STOP, and COME. Why not just stick with direct pressure ?

    john
    ALL of those, should have been cleaned up in the yard.

    That's what it means, when we talk about basics.
    If you are still fighting that stuff in advanced work, you've dropped a pretty big ball.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    ALL of those, should have been cleaned up in the yard.

    That's what it means, when we talk about basics.
    If you are still fighting that stuff in advanced work, you've dropped a pretty big ball.
    LOL If that were the case after a certain point one would not even need a collar. The reality of it is that you do .......

    BTW I wish you would answer the question.
    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 02-05-2013 at 11:13 PM.
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    ...BTW I wish you would answer the question....
    The reality of it is, that there isn't that much in advanced training that deals with failures to GO/FETCH, STOP, or COME.

    However, in order to apply indirect pressure, you HAVE TO be able to apply direct pressure to GO/FETCH, STOP, or COME.
    And that applies to a whole freaking lot of advanced training.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    The reality of it is, that there isn't that much in advanced training that deals with failures to GO/FETCH, STOP, or COME.

    However, in order to apply indirect pressure, you HAVE TO be able to apply direct pressure to GO/FETCH, STOP, or COME.
    And that applies to a whole freaking lot of advanced training.
    Actually the reality of it is that from the cradle to the grave the entire training thing is built on, and includes the maintaining of go, stop, and come. Failure to Stop ( sit immediately and look to the handler for instructions) jumps out as a big problem on a PB blind.
    Not taking those instructions is tantamount to not going at all

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

    "A Good Dog is a Good Dog"

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    ....Failure to Stop ( sit immediately and look to the handler for instructions) jumps out as a big problem on a PB blind....
    That's not the problem that an advanced dog would have.

    Refusing the cast away from the poison bird, sure.
    But not stopping, means big gaping hole in your basics.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    That's not the problem that an advanced dog would have.

    Refusing the cast away from the poison bird, sure.
    But not stopping, means big gaping hole in your basics.
    Or....maybe a nose full of scent?
    Bill Davis

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