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  1. #111
    Senior Member coachmo's Avatar
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    RK, I was being sarcastic about the liberals and giving a Hillary-type response. I'm in complete agreement on the parties involved being brought to justice. Mngundog, glad your back. I hope your understanding of the English language has improved since you last commented about my intelligence! If memory serves me correctly, more than a few dozen elected democrats voted to empower President Bush with the authorization of force to be used in Iraq (if you are referring to Iraq).

  2. #112
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    I found some interesting thoughts in this American Thinker article:
    Second, Hicks dropped a bombshell: The USA never asked Libya for permission to fly through Libyan airspace to defend the consulate in Benghazi. The Obama administration never intended to come to the defense of Ambassador Stevens. Hicks -- fluent in Arabic and familiar with Libya's government -- testified that Libya would have granted permission. This might have been suspected from Panetta's testimony, but Hicks added verification.Congressman Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) keeps reminding us that no one knew how long the attack would last. In fact, it was 3 days later when the embassy staff in Tripoli returned from evacuation to an annex. So at the time, U.S. F-16's might still have been needed long past the first 7 hours. Hicks confirmed that he thought the situation was still dangerous for 3 days. Yet the U.S.A. never requested Libyan permission in case U.S. aircraft might be needed.
    Third, Hicks asked the U.S. military to help immediately at the start of the 7-hour siege of the Benghazi consulate. F-16 fighter jets could have reached Benghazi in 2 to 3 hours from the 31st Fighter Wing in Aviano, Italy, Hicks testified. The embassy's defense attaché was told that F-16's could be over the Consulate in 2-3 hours.
    That means the ambassador and 3 other [COLOR=#11B000 !important]Americans did not need to die. Remember that 2 died near the middle and 2 near the end of the 7-hour ordeal. Jets could have arrived prior to the last 4-5 hours of the assault. Hicks testified that Libyans were deeply afraid of U.S. airpower after months of bombing during the 2011 revolution. Just knowing that U.S. jets were in the area would have sent the consulate attackers fleeing, Hicks testified.[/COLOR]
    However, Hicks repeatedly emphasized that there were no U.S. fuel tankers in the area to refuel the jets in the air. F-16's have a [COLOR=#11B000 !important]range of -- fuel supply for -- 2,000 nautical miles. The distance from Aviano to Benghazi is 1,050 miles. If I had been president, I would ordered "Fly 'em dry!" and let the jets land in Tripoli after buzzing over the Benghazi Consulate for 90 minutes to two hours. A second [COLOR=#11B000 !important]flight[/COLOR] of F-16's could have flown straight to Tripoli to refuel at the airport in Tripoli first. So, thinking outside of the box a bit, would not have required the jets to "bomb the hell out of the place". [/COLOR]
    But this is the failure of Obama's presidential leadership. What about NATO? Obama should have been on the phone to the leaders of Greece, Italy, Germany, France, Spain, asking -- "What do ya got nearby?" Why are we considering only U.S. assets and ignoring the rest of Europe, just across the Mediterranean? Good point, I think, about calling on allies for assets we might not have had ourselves. Isn't that the whole point of having allies?
    It is only 450 miles from Athens, Greece. Greece's Hellenic Air Force purchased 170 F-16s not long ago. Greece's F-16's were only 1 hour away from Benghazi. France has been conducting military air operations in North Mali and Chad in Africa.
    Greek F-16s could have been buzzing the Benghazi consulate within 90 minutes, scaring the attackers within an inch of their lives. If we had an actual president in the White House, if this had been an actual presidency (like, say, that of Ronald Reagan), Barack Obama would have been on the phone to Greek President Karolos Papoulias instead of sleeping while American diplomats died.
    The largest U.S. Air Force base in Europe is Ramstein in Germany, only 1,367 miles from Benghazi. So by the time the F-16's from Aviano were [COLOR=#11B000 !important]running dry, a fuel tanker from Ramstein Air Force Base could have been pulling up alongside to refuel the F-16s. Or fighters from Ramstein could have relieved the Aviano jets, allowing those to land in Tripoli.[/COLOR]
    Also, Lt. Col. Oliver North asked on Fox News why weren't assets pre-positioned on the anniversary of 9/11? There should have been assets on standby in the overall region.
    Fourth, there was indeed a "stand down" order preventing U.S. special forces from defending the Consulate, Hicks confirmed. Special forces at the U.S. embassy in Tripoli were ordered to "stand down" by General Carter F. Ham, Commander of U.S. Africa Command (AFRICOM).
    Lt. Col. Gibson was a commander assigned to the embassy in Tripoli from Special Operations Command Africa (SOCAFRICA). Gibson and the special forces team were "furious" at being ordered not to help the diplomats in Benghazi, Hicks testified. Hicks quoted Gibson as saying, "This is the first time in my career that a diplomat has more balls than somebody in the military."
    Hicks had arranged from Libya's government a C-130 aircraft owned by Libya to fly to Benghazi to evacuate the Consulate. Col. Gibson and Hicks agreed that the special forces team would fly on the C-130 to Benghazi to protect the diplomats being evacuated. But over the summer, authority over the special forces contingent in Libya had been transferred from the embassy to AFRICOM. Gen. Ham ordered the special forces team to stay in Tripoli.
    These were highly-trained individuals with specialized skills who would have played crucial roles in Benghazi. They were also fresh troops to relieve the exhausted team in Benghazi after fighting all night.
    Fifth, a "FEST" response was denied by Hillary Clinton and the U.S. State Department. A "Foreign Emergency Support Team" is the U.S. Government's solution for this type of crisis. We learned that a FEST contains members of many agencies and departments, so that the FEST can access the full range of U.S. Government resources.
    Mark Thompson immediately requested deployment of a Foreign Emergency Support Team to Libya. The U.S. State Department refused. It was "not the right time" to deploy a FEST, Hillary Clinton's leadership decided. Thompson was Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Counterterrorism at the Department of State, in continuous contact with the embassy in Tripoli. Thompson explained that a FEST airplane is always on standby to respond to just this type of emergency. Doesn't seem to say how far away the FEST plane was.
    But this is nonsense. A FEST is uniquely qualified to assess the situation on the ground, evaluate everything, and coordinate appropriate action from across the U.S. Government. A FEST is a command center on-site, specially equipped and trained. So, a FEST on-site is the appropriate means to evaluate the circumstances. So, it is absurd to suggest a FEST deployment would be "too soon."
    An email from Kathleen Austin-Ferguson, the White House discouraged FEST response. Did you notice that it was both "too soon" and also "too late" to tack any effective action to protect our diplomats in Libya? When bureaucrats and politicians don't want to do something there are certain standard tactics they use.
    Moreover, wouldn't you think that if a Deputy Assistant Secretary for counterterrorism is declaring an emergency and asking for a FEST response, that the Secretary Hillary Clinton would be told? If not, someone should be fired. If yes, Hillary should have been fired. Deputy Chief of Mission Hicks had ordered the annex chief to activate the emergency response plan. Shouldn't that be immediately reported to both Clinton and Obama?
    Sixth, it is already being widely reported this week that talk of a demonstration against an anti-Muslim YouTube video was a monstrous and massive lie. However, an important point should be noted. Hicks testified that the massive lies by Ambassador Susan Rice caused a severe rift with the Libyan government.
    Libya knew the video had nothing to do with it. So Libya's government was shocked and puzzled. Libya stopped cooperating for about 2 weeks.


    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/...#ixzz2SuYcKLQx
    I admit that I had trouble following all of Hicks' testimony since things were going on in different places (Tripoli's embassy & Benghazi), and this article separates out some details to make individual events clearer.
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  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Your quote is an article from February 7th.
    Irrelevant to the recent hearings.
    They were still in LIE mode then.

    Even ABC is opening up on the doctoring of the "talking points."

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...or-references/

    Daily Koz regards.............
    Well, it is glad to see that you know how to use a search engine and can post more than one sentence.

    Exactly where are the lies in the Panetta testimony and how is his testimony in any way contradicted by yesterday's testimony or that of anyone else such as Clinton and Petreaus? Did the report from the independent investigator find there to be lies? No.

    Funny that you think my post of the Panetta testimony is irrelevant. Panetta's testimony is entirely relevant to this discussion which, as you will note, started with a post about his testimony back in February. How come you never posted that you also think the unsupported BS posted among the 10 pages here is irrelevant?

    You are all welcomed to keep saying and thinking that that there were big lies, a coverup, etc. No matter how the situation was handled after the attacks none of you would be satisfied.

  4. #114
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Except that is spin and did not happen that way.
    Ask Hillary and Ted and Bill, they all stated the same as the President.
    Want me to post the videos of them saying so???????
    BTW--If so, someone else will have to, I am heading to Iowa to run Mr Elvis!


    These people KNEW before they stated "video" was the cause that it wasn't.
    They KNEW before they edited the word terrrorism from the talking points that it WAS terrorism..

    BTW---Bush hasn't been President for over 5 years now.
    Perhaps you might shift your focus to the DEBACLE that is occurring before your kool-aid stained eyes.
    Which test?
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  5. #115
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    Very true, but it seemed like it was just last week that his lies were being celebrated, the same types of lies that the Republicans are trying to condemn, they need to made up their minds which way it should be.
    Don't get me wrong if their was a cover-up they should be held accountable, however its a little disheartening that a cover-up in their own party is completely ignored, or even celebrated.
    Maybe nothing was done because he didn't lie.
    Just because you have Bush derangement syndrome doesn't mean he lied.

    This administration knowingly lied about benghazi.
    Stan b & Elvis

  6. #116
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Maybe nothing was done because he didn't lie.
    Just because you have Bush derangement syndrome doesn't mean he lied.

    This administration knowingly lied about benghazi.

    I get a kick out of the fact that you all think that every time there is some crime or incident that happens around the world, our "leadership" steps up the the microphone and spills their guts with the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God. None of you have ever heard of keeping cards close to your vest while in the middle of an investigation so as not to tip those you're after off that you're on to them. Nope, never happens.

    The whole brew ha ha over Benghazi is completely based on the fact that Republicans felt that they should have been able to capitalize on the tragedy to damage Obama in the eyes of the electorate & elect their guy Mitt. Now they are bitter because their tactics didn't work, they feel that Obama is not legit because if the "truth" had come out, their boy would be sitting in the Oval Office as we speak... It was clear as a bell. What was the first thing that Republicans did after the attacks? They certainly didn't come together and circle the wagons against foreign threats. The jumped in with both feet attacking AMERICANS, beginning with Obama, the administration, the Secretary of State, and anyone else they could get their sites on - right down the line. They will continue these attacks in an attempt to delegitimize Clinton and be sure and tarnish her chances in 2016.

    The whole thing is dirty filthy gutter partisan politics, nothing more. I kind of view RTF as a microcosm of the cheering section.

    Well that was fun. Back to showing nothing but arses and elbows...
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  7. #117
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I get a kick out of the fact that you all think that every time there is some crime or incident that happens around the world, our "leadership" steps up the the microphone and spills their guts with the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God. None of you have ever heard of keeping cards close to your vest while in the middle of an investigation so as not to tip those you're after off that you're on to them. Nope, never happens.

    The whole brew ha ha over Benghazi is completely based on the fact that Republicans felt that they should have been able to capitalize on the tragedy to damage Obama in the eyes of the electorate & elect their guy Mitt. Now they are bitter because their tactics didn't work, they feel that Obama is not legit because if the "truth" had come out, their boy would be sitting in the Oval Office as we speak... It was clear as a bell. What was the first thing that Republicans did after the attacks? They certainly didn't come together and circle the wagons against foreign threats. The jumped in with both feet attacking AMERICANS, beginning with Obama, the administration, the Secretary of State, and anyone else they could get their sites on - right down the line. They will continue these attacks in an attempt to delegitimize Clinton and be sure and tarnish her chances in 2016.

    The whole thing is dirty filthy gutter partisan politics, nothing more. I kind of view RTF as a microcosm of the cheering section.

    Well that was fun. Back to showing nothing but arses and elbows...
    The truly frightening aspect of this is I think you really believe what you posted!
    Stan b & Elvis

  8. #118
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    ABC News has added to the story now:
    [QUOTEABC News has obtained 12 different versions of the talking points that show they were extensively edited as they evolved from the drafts first written entirely by the CIA to the final version distributed to Congress and to U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Susan Rice before she appeared on five talk shows the Sunday after that attack.
    White House emails reviewed by ABC News suggest the edits were made with extensive input from the State Department. The edits included requests from the State Department that references to the Al Qaeda-affiliated group Ansar al-Sharia be deleted as well references to CIA warnings about terrorist threats in Benghazi in the months preceding the attack.
    That would appear to directly contradict what White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said about the talking points in November.


    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...#ixzz2SuuST7Iv
    [/QUOTE]
    ABC helpfully supplies the complete set of revisions.
    Also interesting
    Note also that Hillary Clinton was not under oath when she misled Congress. Hillary was a staffer working on the impeachment of Nixon, after all. She knows better than to perjure herself. The stakes for her are political not penal.
    I did not know that. I thought she was under oath. Smartie pants!

    This author further explains why none of this is reason for impeachment. And he concludes that is not necessarily bad news ...
    And why should we seek to get him out of office? The alternative is Joe Biden, hardly an improvement.
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  9. #119
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I get a kick out of the fact that you all think that every time there is some crime or incident that happens around the world, our "leadership" steps up the the microphone and spills their guts with the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God. None of you have ever heard of keeping cards close to your vest while in the middle of an investigation so as not to tip those you're after off that you're on to them. Nope, never happens.

    The whole brew ha ha over Benghazi is completely based on the fact that Republicans felt that they should have been able to capitalize on the tragedy to damage Obama in the eyes of the electorate & elect their guy Mitt. Now they are bitter because their tactics didn't work, they feel that Obama is not legit because if the "truth" had come out, their boy would be sitting in the Oval Office as we speak... It was clear as a bell. What was the first thing that Republicans did after the attacks? They certainly didn't come together and circle the wagons against foreign threats. The jumped in with both feet attacking AMERICANS, beginning with Obama, the administration, the Secretary of State, and anyone else they could get their sites on - right down the line. They will continue these attacks in an attempt to delegitimize Clinton and be sure and tarnish her chances in 2016.

    The whole thing is dirty filthy gutter partisan politics, nothing more. I kind of view RTF as a microcosm of the cheering section.

    Well that was fun. Back to showing nothing but arses and elbows...
    Drive by poster, eh?
    Bill Davis

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Maybe nothing was done because he didn't lie.
    Just because you have Bush derangement syndrome doesn't mean he lied.

    This administration knowingly lied about benghazi.
    "We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories,"-George W Bush
    Well he either lied when he said this, or he lied when he later said that they didn't find any, either way he lied, there's no way around that, to say otherwise would make one a .............

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