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Thread: Not a word ...

  1. #141
    Senior Member helencalif's Avatar
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    I have no insight or knowledge of military forces. As an average person, I think our military forces can react quickly. Quickly? I am appalled with what is being said ... the US has these military units, planes, and equipment all over Europe etc, but none can get to Benghazi in less than 20-24 hours. Obviously the terrorists knew this.

    What (or where) is next?

  2. #142
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helencalif View Post
    I have no insight or knowledge of military forces. As an average person, I think our military forces can react quickly. Quickly? I am appalled with what is being said ... the US has these military units, planes, and equipment all over Europe etc, but none can get to Benghazi in less than 20-24 hours. Obviously the terrorists knew this.

    What (or where) is next?
    Helen, you are correct. We have the capability, just not the will. Our own leader watched these men die. They could have done something. They had a duty to try.
    Bill Davis

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Down East Labs 217 View Post
    The Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) was in the Mediterranean. It has Harrier jump jets and the a floating platform to take off from. The State Dept. never gave it a second thought. We always have a MEU in the Mediterranean.
    I've been told that the Iwo was in the Eastern Med at the time but not where exactly. The Harrier has a combat radius of about 500 nm. There are lots of places in the Med that are 500+ nm from Benghazi. I don't know if a MEU has the capability to tank like an Nimitz class aircraft. Certainly if they were 500+ miles away, the fleet could have made up some of the distance, but not much, so as to shorten the return. The MD60 (helicopter) only has about half the range as the Harrier.
    Eric

    WRC HR Lennoxlove's Run with Wolves JH, WCX ("Cheyenne") ... still so fondly remembered
    HRCh Struan's Devil's in De Tails SH, WCX ("Lucy")
    SR CH Struan's Flight of Fancy JH ("Muse")
    Struan's Master of the Hunt JH, WC ("Charlie")
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    Struan's Driving Us Crazy ("Daisy") ... the baby in charge

  4. #144
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    Helen-

    We have only about a third of the forces in Europe as we did in the 1980's. Heck, friends and I sometimes play the game of great bases to visit that aren't there anymore....Heyford, Alconbury, Bentwaters, Zaragosa, Zweibrucken, Rhine-Mein, Bitburg, Hahn, ....the list goes on and on.

    The problem is that it's not possible to have the right answer to every problem located at every base.
    Eric

    WRC HR Lennoxlove's Run with Wolves JH, WCX ("Cheyenne") ... still so fondly remembered
    HRCh Struan's Devil's in De Tails SH, WCX ("Lucy")
    SR CH Struan's Flight of Fancy JH ("Muse")
    Struan's Master of the Hunt JH, WC ("Charlie")
    Struan's Just Plain Perfect ("Jane")
    Struan's Driving Us Crazy ("Daisy") ... the baby in charge

  5. #145
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    "Stand Down" is not the right answer when your men are under fire. Regardless of the logistics... Again, all this talk is a smokescreen. You don't watch Americans to perish without DOING SOMETHING. Going to bed is not the right answer.
    Bill Davis

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    "Stand Down" is not the right answer when your men are under fire.
    I'm not saying that at all. I'm merely discussing the options and why so many of them weren't available. My guess is that the troops in Tripoli, just the 4, should have been sent while the Foreign Emergency Support Team was flown in. Chances are, the reason why this didn't happen is that some politico in State or the WH was just too terrified to act since they'd never been in this position. Stop and think. Historically world affairs have created at least one situation that a President had to handle. Benghazi was the first for this President and he didn't handle it well.

    By contrast we have the Achille Lauro incident in which one American died. When the hijackers fled aboard a commercial aircraft, Reagan directed the Navy to force the plane to land in Sicily and the hijackers were captured and tried for murder. Then there's the Mayaguez incident with President Ford. That got all screwed up but we did something and Ford was praised for it. We had about 50 marines killed or wounded but we did something.
    Eric

    WRC HR Lennoxlove's Run with Wolves JH, WCX ("Cheyenne") ... still so fondly remembered
    HRCh Struan's Devil's in De Tails SH, WCX ("Lucy")
    SR CH Struan's Flight of Fancy JH ("Muse")
    Struan's Master of the Hunt JH, WC ("Charlie")
    Struan's Just Plain Perfect ("Jane")
    Struan's Driving Us Crazy ("Daisy") ... the baby in charge

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    .................................................. ........... Benghazi was the first for this President and he didn't handle it well.

    .................................................. .......................
    Agree 100%. I don't care if a person likes him or not it would seem to me that he was not equiped to lead this nation under any circumstance. Trouble is he does not seem to learn very quickly. He should have woke people up if they were asleep and said 'what can we do about this'. Having two daughters one would think in being a parent he would have learned to recognize an emergency when one came along.
    charly

    There ought to be one day -- just one -- when there is open season on Congressmen.
    ~Will Rogers~

  8. #148
    Senior Member helencalif's Avatar
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    I have been paying attention re-Benghazi. I don't recall ever hearing just what the POTUS did after 5 p.m. ET. No phone calls. Held no meetings. Attended no meetings called by others. I guess he packed his bags for Vegas and went to bed.

    I can see it now... it's 3 a.m. in the Oval Office, the red phone is ringing.... ringing, ringing. A janitor goes by mopping floors, walks over to the phone, and picks it up. "Hello? ... He ain't here."

  9. #149
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    "Stand Down" is not the right answer when your men are under fire. Regardless of the logistics... Again, all this talk is a smokescreen. You don't watch Americans to perish without DOING SOMETHING. Going to bed is not the right answer.
    As the son of a military man, I cant accept the excuse "...we wouldnt have got there in time.." there are numerous HRT(hostage rescue team), Special forces, Delta, and SEAL teams whose sole purpose in training is for situations just like this, there are air strike teams who can scramble at a moments notice and be airborne within minutes...ITS WHAT THE MILITARY IS TRAINED TO DO...

    Their are a couple of joint Chiefs of Staff who should lose a Star or maybe rattle a few cages for NOT having a unit ready to go, they need to apologize to the families of the dead, and then they need to apologize to the American public for not coming to the rescue of their countrymen

    Even Sam Houston tried to make it to the Alamo....not trying is unacceptable, its cowardice
    All my Exes live in Texas

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  10. #150
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    Just to pose a couple of random thoughts to the mix--

    1. Nothing is said now about the storming of the embassy in Cairo though it is the purported reason for the Benghazi attacks. I suddenly don't recall anything else being said since that day. Is it possible that the folks in the WH and State were concentrating on these? For instance, could the refusal to use the Marine Exp Unit aboard the Iwo Jima been because nobody knew which way to turn? Why hasn't the Cairo episode been mentioned except in the Benghazi talking points. For instance, why wasn't the FEST sent to Cairo either? What about the other attacks on embassies? I think that there were 4 that week.

    2. The military in this county follows a strict concept of civilian command and control. There were likely all kinds of military options and ideas floating around but the civilians put the kibosh on these. Why haven't we heard from any of the military guys yet? I'm not saying the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs but the commanders of the Unified Combat Commands (EuCom, AfricaCom) or lower. There's a book in there someplace but we'll likely have to wait for a retirement to take place.

    A book just released Tuesday (and I'm only a third through it) called Pirate Alley is by Stephan Coonts. The scenario is different but the military-civilian relationship portrayed is very correct. It shows just how screwed up things can get when you have civilians who don't care a whit about the military suddenly start micromanaging the military in a crisis.
    Eric

    WRC HR Lennoxlove's Run with Wolves JH, WCX ("Cheyenne") ... still so fondly remembered
    HRCh Struan's Devil's in De Tails SH, WCX ("Lucy")
    SR CH Struan's Flight of Fancy JH ("Muse")
    Struan's Master of the Hunt JH, WC ("Charlie")
    Struan's Just Plain Perfect ("Jane")
    Struan's Driving Us Crazy ("Daisy") ... the baby in charge

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