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Thread: Split Casting Drill and Verbal Backs

  1. #11
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    Evan/dexdoolittle- If you both would look at the time of your posts (1 minute part) I suspect you two were typing over the top of each other. Both of you take a valium.

    This thread has the potential to teach trainers with my level of experience something of value. Please don't derail it.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rnd View Post
    Thanks for the input guys. I'll try to explain this "S" drill as I understand it. Since I've not seen a dog run it only phone conversations about it. I also know that the dogs never see a TT drill ever.

    The piles would be at 12 o'clock 10, and 2. Nothing at 3 or 9 the focus is always to get the dog going back. No overs involved. No pressure either, or at least very little.
    Randy,

    I may be asking for more information than you have yet on this procedure. Are there any other elements of basic handling prep they get before this drill, or do you know? No simple baseball, or 3-handed casting?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rnd View Post
    The 5 legged pattern I've seen. It's not the big wide open pattern as Evan describes but much tighter. The dog would run past each pile to get to the next.
    Are you talking about the tighter one in DL's book? Will you use it only for lining, or will you also seek to cast on it? And was this a procedure from an article somewhere? I'm just curious.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


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  3. #13

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    I can see the field trial community not getting along is certainly not outdated.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Rnd's Avatar
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    I may be asking for more information than you have yet on this procedure. Are there any other elements of basic handling prep they get before this drill, or do you know? No simple baseball, or 3-handed casting?
    No simple baseball and, no overs. It would be similar to simple baseball except there are no overs everything is back or angling back. It's not 3 handed casting because there is no"hand" for back. 2-handed maybe silent angle backs which are bigger bites than verbals without hands.

    Are you talking about the tighter one in DL's book? Will you use it only for lining, or will you also seek to cast on it? And was this a procedure from an article somewhere? I'm just curious.
    Yes similar to DL's tighter 5-leg even tighter. Once the dog is proficient on the "S" drill he is then moved to the 5-legged pattern.

    If the dog goes to the wrong pile it is not corrected (remember focus is on moving back) he is allowed to pick it up and then is handled to the proper pile. ( I think this is now called disciplined casting) all through attrition if possible.

    I did not read an article on this. ( if I did it may be easier for me to wrap my mind around it)

    I know a trainer that uses this method and he is trying to explain it to me over the phone but I just don't get it....
    The said trainer has also been training field trial dogs to the national levels for decades...So I'm not questioning it's validity just trying to understand what he is talking about.

    I'm pretty John Cavanaugh and Danny Farmer were mentioned in our conversation as well.....

    That's why I would like Dennis to join back in when he can.

    Thank you,. Randy
    May you pin all the marks and line the blinds!!

    Avatar courtesy of RTF"s TZAPPIA

  5. #15
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rnd View Post
    I'm pretty John Cavanaugh and Danny Farmer were mentioned in our conversation as well.....

    That's why I would like Dennis to join back in when he can.

    Thank you,. Randy
    I hope he will. That would be a real departure for Danny, as he's always been pretty straight up Carr method, T's and all.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


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  6. #16
    Senior Member jd6400's Avatar
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    Dave Thompson has been doin this for years.....Don`t agree,but my son is having excellent resuls. Jim

  7. #17
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd6400 View Post
    Dave Thompson has been doin this for years.....Don`t agree,but my son is having excellent resuls. Jim
    Can you offer some detail about it?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


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  8. #18
    Senior Member Sabireley's Avatar
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    I use the split drill described in an old article of John Cavanaugh's published in Retrievers on Line about 10 years ago. The purpose of this drill is to teach the dog to always change direction on any cast. I use it with dogs that tend to dig back. You line the dog to each pile to identify them, then stop the dog on SOME subsequent sends, giving a straight up cast.

    The piles are 30-40 yards apart maybe and a 100 yards from the line. I mark them with a pole or flag. I line to a pile 1, stop to pile 1, cast to pile 2, line to pile 2, stop to pile 2, cast to pile 1, etc. This sequence works for me. The literal cast would be closer to 45 degrees but giving the straight up cast requires the dog to substantially change direction to achieve the other pile. These are all silent casts with a small step.

    It seems like lying to the dog, but the drill helps quite a bit with dig back issues in a controlled drill environment. I prefer to work on blind issues in a drill environment where corrections (attrition or collar) are black and white, and hopefully provide context for corrections in the field.
    Last edited by Sabireley; 02-08-2013 at 06:26 PM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Rnd's Avatar
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    Thanks Sabirely,

    This helps. 30 yards left or right at 100 hundred is tight and helps me understand what may be going on, whether silent, or verbal only.

    The piles are 30-40 yards apart maybe and a 100 yards from the line. I mark them with a pole or flag. I line to a pile 1, stop to pile 1, cast to pile 2, line to pile 2, stop to pile 2, cast to pile 1, etc. This sequence works for me. The literal cast would be closer to 45 degrees but giving the straight up cast requires the dog to substantially change direction to achieve the other pile. These are all silent casts with a small step.
    May you pin all the marks and line the blinds!!

    Avatar courtesy of RTF"s TZAPPIA

  10. #20
    Senior Member Sabireley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rnd View Post
    Thanks Sabirely,

    This helps. 30 yards left or right at 100 hundred is tight and helps me understand what may be going on, whether silent, or verbal only.
    It may be a little more than 30. The object is requiring a substantial direction change with a minimal angle cast. You can make the piles wide enough to accomplish the goal. The 100 yards is convenient because I run that drill on a football field. If you stop the dog between 40 and 70 yards, the angle to the other pile will vary somewhat.

    I would not use a verbal in this drill because it tends to drive the dog back, the very thing you are trying to correct.

    Steve
    Last edited by Sabireley; 02-08-2013 at 09:26 PM.

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