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Thread: Positive only?

  1. #1
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Default Positive only?

    +r only trainer faced with a dog self rewarding by playing keep away steps on leash or long line, making it progressively shorter to prevent pup from running away.

    Is this really +r only?

    I think if you tied me to a post by my neck and let me struggle against a flat collar I would view it as +p?

    Thoughts?
    Darrin Greene

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    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    A self rewarding behavior is difficult to deal with by using +r, especially if there is no higher value reward that the trainer can offer. A bitch in heat might be a higher value reward but who keeps one on hand for this training? I think that it is more important to get the desirable behavior quickly which means judicious use of aversives. Use the long line and pinch collar.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

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    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    I think if you tied me to a post by my neck and let me struggle against a flat collar I would view it as +p?
    How do we know what you get up to in private? There are folks who get their kicks that way ...... or so I have been told.

    I try to avoid the semantics of the OC quadrant; whatever I might think is going on, it's up to the dog to determine the reality and the final judgement should (IMO) be based on outcomes. So in the case of stepping on the lead, who cares what quadrant we are in providing it gives the result we intended? Which, IMO it might well, or not.

    Eug
    Last edited by Colonel Blimp; 02-10-2013 at 02:00 PM.
    Thank you, very kind, Mine's a pint.

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    Stepping on the leash is considered punishment whether it was intended or not. 100% positive trainers rarely punish in the field. It's technically should be called 98% positive.

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    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    It's Positive if it gets a result ! Or is that too 'cryptic'
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

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    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    +r only trainer faced with a dog self rewarding by playing keep away steps on leash or long line, making it progressively shorter to prevent pup from running away.

    Is this really +r only?

    I think if you tied me to a post by my neck and let me struggle against a flat collar I would view it as +p?

    Thoughts?
    The only pure positive thing I see, is that I get my bumper back.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    It's Positive if it gets a result ! Or is that too 'cryptic'
    Not for me Robert!

    Eug
    Thank you, very kind, Mine's a pint.

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    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Blimp View Post
    Not for me Robert!

    Eug
    For the Dog! Eug
    Creating a negative ,can be done in the same way.
    The recent Five nations results must have you 'cockahoop' and feeling positive ?..
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

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    Senior Member thelast2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Barnett View Post
    Stepping on the leash is considered punishment whether it was intended or not. 100% positive trainers rarely punish in the field. It's technically should be called 98% positive.
    These are the people who go into the lumber store and buy a single 2 x 4 a couple of times a year is what your saying, dog gets whalloped behind closed doors and no one knows the better. That seems pretty positive to me, the dog isnt getting publicly humiliated this way.

    I personally dont think you can be 100% positive with dog training. There is no way to get the dog to do what you want everytime the first time without the use of some negative. I think more along the lines of varying degrees of positive and negative pressure. In training a little negative pressure is used to get a large positive response from the dog. Mostly positive training can be done, but completly positive you would never end up with more than a trained house dog.
    Jesse

    HR SHR JR'S GUNNY DOG "ERMEY"
    SR JR'S MARSH MANGLING MINDY
    JR'S LNR THICKET THRASHING TRIXIE

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    I would say it's not +r and I don't think any knowledgeable trainer would approach the problem that way. Especially a 95% positive trainer. A good pos trainer would start from scratch and teach the behavior from square one, if there was a problem with dog playing keep away.

    Is the dog playing keep away with a retrieve object or with a reward object, in this scenario?

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