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Thread: Positive only?

  1. #71
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaeganW View Post
    Stepping on a leash is "allowed." I'd call it negative punishment. You're limiting options.

    It's a bit different if you're stepping on the leash while the dog is bolting away from you and you clothesline him.

    It's even more different if you've set the dog up to be tempted to bolt and you step on the leash to clothesline him.

    In any case, there are probably more efficient ways of teaching the lesson than relying on the leash. Leashes are seat belts, not steering wheels or brakes.
    I still have to ask though... How do you call it training with positive methods if restraining the dog is acceptable?

    It's punishment, in one form or another...

    Stepping on the leash - +p and -p
    Pinch collar= +p and -p
    E collar = +p and -p

    So... it's not the method that's a problem but rather, it's the tools.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 02-11-2013 at 07:53 PM.
    Darrin Greene

  2. #72
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    "Pure positive" is a straw man. No trainer never uses punishment. If a behavior decreases, it has been punished. That's perfectly fine, some behaviors need to be decreased. Counter surfing, peeing in the house, I would rather my dog not perform those behaviors. If they decrease in frequency, they have been punished. That is what the word means.

    IMO "positive training" differs in two key aspects.

    1) the rejection of positive punishment or applied aversives - popping a choke chain, smacking with a heeling stick, pinching an ear.

    2) a greater interest in reinforcing desired behavior than in punishing undesired behavior.

    This is not to say other trainers do not do the same, but its generally what seperates a positive trainer from a "traditional" or "balanced" trainer.

    The quadrants are generally seen in +R/-P or -R/+P pairs. -P has always been "allowed" in +R training. "Positive" is just an abbreviated label.

    And this isn't even getting into the difference between positive training and clicker training.
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  3. #73
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Yes, it's all rocket science after all. Ask any 250/hr behaviorist
    Darrin Greene

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