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Thread: Positive only?

  1. #31
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Couch View Post
    Darren after re reading the thread I am on board with you. If you are using an object reward and it is doing more harm than good in relation to time restraints to train the dog then you should go to a food reward instead. Is there any reason these folks are not wanting to move to a food reward?
    Yes Jon, ultimately it will be a toy reward for the dog based on the work they are being prepared for. I'm just not sure they understand time frames, OR there really isn't one. I can't really ask those questions. I just do what they ask of me, in this case teach these guys to handle at short range.

    We'll get it done, over time. We may even have a new industry standard protocol when we're done.

    It's FUN!
    Darrin Greene

  2. #32
    Senior Member Jon Couch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    Yes Jon, ultimately it will be a toy reward for the dog based on the work they are being prepared for. I'm just not sure they understand time frames, OR there really isn't one. I can't really ask those questions. I just do what they ask of me, in this case teach these guys to handle at short range.

    We'll get it done, over time. We may even have a new industry standard protocol when we're done.

    It's FUN!
    Have they thought about using a tug reward instead of a ball you would have a lot more control over the dog. I have recently started using tug rewards and have found it to be very motivating for our retrievers!
    Jon Couch
    Duck Creek Kennels
    Allegan, MI

    http://duckcreekkennels.com

    "It's very important to constantly analyze what you are doing and whether your dogs are being good or bad because of what you are doing or in spite of what you are doing." Mike Lardy

  3. #33
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    ain't the fresh shot, still flapping, warm and bloody duck Muffy has in her teeth, one and the same?

    Yes, BUT. Are they training the dog to go open a fridge door and using a ball retrieve as a reward.

    Or

    Are they training a dog to do a blind retrieve of a duck and the dog is playing keep away with the duck?

    Two different scenarios.

    Let's all admit, you never know WHAT Darrin is training a dog to do...

  4. #34
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    Yes, BUT. Are they training the dog to go open a fridge door and using a ball retrieve as a reward.

    Or

    Are they training a dog to do a blind retrieve of a duck and the dog is playing keep away with the duck?

    Two different scenarios.

    Let's all admit, you never know WHAT Darrin is training a dog to do...

    A scenario I have seen more than once. Riddle me this Jen.
    Miss Molly Minivan comes to a hunt test. He totally in tune with her Golden Retriever Muffy runs out and gets its first live flier. Molly does not have a group to train with and does not belong to a club. She uses no birds in training. Muffy is for some reason birdy as heck and when it gets to that bird, it is like Ray Lewis in a deer antler shop! Muffy grabs that fresh duck and instead of running straight back to Molly runs to the live gunners and circles them a couple times. Then runs to the gallery and shows the duck to all. Then circles the judges a few times in a full and proper victory lap. And then instead of handing Molly the bird runs to the parking area and sits by the door of the minivan ready to go home.
    Handle this how, will you?
    BTW I been typing about Miss Molly Minivan for about 98 years here on the RTF (we count in dog years here) so this hypothetical scenario in no way reflects you or your training activities or choice of motor vehicles pr retriever breeds. Just a funny happenstance, it is.
    Yet the question is valid and not rhetorical.
    How would you counsel Molly?
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  5. #35
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    I'm just hacking my way through stuff Jenn. Lots of better trainers than me out there with more experience and more natural ability. I just try to work hard.
    Darrin Greene

  6. #36
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    A scenario I have seen more than once. Riddle me this Jen.
    Miss Molly Minivan comes to a hunt test. He totally in tune with her Golden Retriever Muffy runs out and gets its first live flier. Molly does not have a group to train with and does not belong to a club. She uses no birds in training. Muffy is for some reason birdy as heck and when it gets to that bird, it is like Ray Lewis in a deer antler shop! Muffy grabs that fresh duck and instead of running straight back to Molly runs to the live gunners and circles them a couple times. Then runs to the gallery and shows the duck to all. Then circles the judges a few times in a full and proper victory lap. And then instead of handing Molly the bird runs to the parking area and sits by the door of the minivan ready to go home.
    Handle this how, will you?
    BTW I been typing about Miss Molly Minivan for about 98 years here on the RTF (we count in dog years here) so this hypothetical scenario in no way reflects you or your training activities or choice of motor vehicles pr retriever breeds. Just a funny happenstance, it is.
    Yet the question is valid and not rhetorical.
    How would you counsel Molly?
    "rope" come to mind by any chance Ken?

    LOL and I've seen that happen at a club training day to a guy who HAS a training group, and an e-collar!
    Darrin Greene

  7. #37
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    To stop going to tests and to go back to the training yard. First work on fetch from the ground using a duck. Hold the duck and delivery to hand. Then work on short hand thrown duck retrieves, then work on gunner thrown ducks in the field - a lot! Molly has to have at least one friend or family member or paid neighbor kid to help be a live gunner!

  8. #38
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    ..... Molly has to have at least one friend or family member or paid neighbor kid to help be a live gunner!

    some folk have beautiful disaster by 311 as a theme song
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  9. #39
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    some folk have beautiful disaster by 311 as a theme song
    You must be younger than I am - I have no idea what you're talking about!

    Darrin, you have my respect - glad you have these training opportunities and hope you will share the good stuff with the rest of us!

    Jen

  10. #40
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    You must be younger than I am - I have no idea what you're talking about!

    Jen
    311 is a pop music group
    beautiful disaster is a song

    opening verse-
    Today seems like a good day to burn a bridge or two
    The one with old wood creaking that would burn away
    right on cue
    I try to be not like that but some people really shuck
    Some people need to get the axing chalk it up to bad
    luck

    I know a drugstore cowgirl so afraid of getting bored
    She's always running from something so many things
    ignored
    I might do that stuff if it didn't make me feel like
    smit
    I'm on some old reality tip so many trips in it
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

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