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Thread: Transitioning back to HRC

  1. #41
    Senior Member David McLendon's Avatar
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    Judging two grands I never picked a dog up on the way to or from the line, and only dinged one for the trip. I did pick one dog up at the line for barking from the time he got there until the time that he tried to jump on the honor dog. Out of all the dogs that I looked at through two grands those are the only two worth mentioning.
    As far as looking for the best of the best,well therein lies the moving target. The best dog doesn't always pass the grand, and there again the term best is subjective. For me personally the two best dogs that I have ever owned and raised so far (mother and son) will never see a grand because historically the grand doesn't favor that type of dog and they are doing something else. That is the mother in the avatar.
    Field Trials are competitions....not everyone gets a "participation ribbon" and they do "keep score"

    Music for walking to the line
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xr6KfJOFqk

  2. #42
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David McLendon View Post
    Judging two grands I never picked a dog up on the way to or from the line, and only dinged one for the trip. I did pick one dog up at the line for barking from the time he got there until the time that he tried to jump on the honor dog. Out of all the dogs that I looked at through two grands those are the only two worth mentioning.
    As far as looking for the best of the best,well therein lies the moving target. The best dog doesn't always pass the grand, and there again the term best is subjective. For me personally the two best dogs that I have ever owned and raised so far (mother and son) will never see a grand because historically the grand doesn't favor that type of dog and they are doing something else. That is the mother in the avatar.

    Although I have never met you, I certainly respect you.

    Lonnie Spann

  3. #43
    Senior Member David McLendon's Avatar
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    We could hang Dude. No Doubt...
    Field Trials are competitions....not everyone gets a "participation ribbon" and they do "keep score"

    Music for walking to the line
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xr6KfJOFqk

  4. #44
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Spann View Post
    I'm over it, I quit twitching and breaking out with hives about a month ago

    Lonnie Spann

    Your over it??? are you sure!!!
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83047
    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
    Metras's Hashtag Mickey
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83051



    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
    Uncle Ray

  5. #45
    Senior Member JoeOverby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Spann View Post
    From the 2011 Rule Book, available online:

    From the 2011 Rule Book:
    Guidelines-Judging Grand Hunt Tests
    IV.
    The Judge should look for the dog that walks obediently
    to the line, sits obediently and exhibits an attentive
    attitude.

    Guidelines-Judging Finished Hunt Tests

    IV. The Judge should look for the dog that walks

    obediently to the line, sits obediently, and exhibits an

    attentive attitude.


    Lonnie Spann
    From the 2013 rule book

    Steadiness - Seasoned, Finished and Grand
    Retrievers are required to be steady at the line without
    physical or excessive verbal restraint. A controlled
    break (Judges must decide distance prior to running
    the test) will result in a mark down at the Seasoned and
    Finished levels
    and a failure at the Grand level. In the
    event of a controlled break, the retriever must stop and
    return quickly to the line when directed to do so.

    Response to Direction - When a Handler chooses
    to direct their retriever with voice, whistle, and/or hand
    signals, the retriever should respond. Dogs entered in
    the Grand Hunt test will be judged much harder than
    Upland Hunter, Finished or Seasoned
    , but in all cases,
    excessive refusals by the retriever can result in failure.
    The Judges must decide in each test what excessive is
    and judge accordingly.

    Ok, I understand it has NOTHING to do with walking at heel BUT it does show an increase in difficulty and a change in standard from the weekend hts and the Grand. Listen Lonnie, I agree with you...walking at heel is the silliest thing a judge could ever put weight on at an event like this. If you look at page 33 in the rule book it gives 5 specific criteria by which to judge a retriever.
    1. Marking Ability and memory
    2. Nose
    3. Hunting Desire
    4. CONTROL
    5. Hunting Style
    You will see that Control is the 4th thing on that list...marking being the first...which would you think should carry more weight?? And for that, for several years now, Grand judges have been ENTIRELY too quick to make a handler "put the dog on the bird" IMO...and not let the dog hunt...they are called HUNTING retrievers. There are things I don't like, agree with, or condone but its not up to me. As far as Grand judges never having trained their own GRHRCH...there was a time I thought exactly that...then I met and ran under guys like David Mclendon and Jim Hodges...theyve never reached the GRHRCH title but I promise you they belong in that judges chair. Be mad at the Grand Committee...hell you aint the only one with ill feelings however, IMO the best thing you could do is make em give you the ribbon when you pass their test...
    Joe Overby
    Candler Creek Retrievers
    www.candlercreekretrievers.com
    GRHRCH UH "Hooch" MH (HRC 1500 pt. club)
    HRCH "Tater" MH

  6. #46
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    Good post Joe.
    "Force fetch isn't about retrieving as much as it is conditioning a dog to handle pressure, in a very controlled environment. It's about putting a dog in the position of having to figure out how to turn off pressure by finding the correct response. This translates into numerous areas in training." Sharon Potter.

  7. #47
    Senior Member red devil's Avatar
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    Just wonderin...... How is it the vast majority of the dogs (>90%) are pro handled and almost as many pro trained. This in an organization professing to be "for hunters, by hunters".
    I have wondered this since seeing handlers and dogs at a Grand fail to see a bird, dogs I had judged and admired that past year. Also seeing dogs pass that....well never mind. Yet those dogs are called the best of the best????? For this judge it called into question the validity of the event. Please do not misunderstand, many, many of the dogs with GRHRCH in front of their name fully deserve the moniker, yet the system is predisposed to eliminating a class of dogs many of us admire, not for their work as a retriever but rather the whim of a judge who confuses OB with performance to a ridiculous degree.

    Sorry for the Hijack - felt contrary tonight. Have fun training this weekend and good luck to all at the Spring Grand
    HRCH Wind River's Frisky Whisky SH WCX - Thanx for the memories my friend
    HRCH UH Red Devil's Risky Rascal WCX
    HR Red Devil's Wild Wind River
    SHR Red Devil's Ready Freddie
    SHR Red Devil's Lambeau Leap
    SHR YRP Grand Chien's Chase the Sunset

  8. #48
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjoiner View Post
    My zipper is backwards too. What's that about?
    You just need to teach your zipper to slow down...

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  9. #49
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeOverby View Post
    From the 2013 rule book

    Steadiness - Seasoned, Finished and Grand
    Retrievers are required to be steady at the line without
    physical or excessive verbal restraint. A controlled
    break (Judges must decide distance prior to running
    the test) will result in a mark down at the Seasoned and
    Finished levels
    and a failure at the Grand level. In the
    event of a controlled break, the retriever must stop and
    return quickly to the line when directed to do so.

    Response to Direction - When a Handler chooses
    to direct their retriever with voice, whistle, and/or hand
    signals, the retriever should respond. Dogs entered in
    the Grand Hunt test will be judged much harder than
    Upland Hunter, Finished or Seasoned
    , but in all cases,
    excessive refusals by the retriever can result in failure.
    The Judges must decide in each test what excessive is
    and judge accordingly.

    Ok, I understand it has NOTHING to do with walking at heel BUT it does show an increase in difficulty and a change in standard from the weekend hts and the Grand. Listen Lonnie, I agree with you...walking at heel is the silliest thing a judge could ever put weight on at an event like this. If you look at page 33 in the rule book it gives 5 specific criteria by which to judge a retriever.
    1. Marking Ability and memory
    2. Nose
    3. Hunting Desire
    4. CONTROL
    5. Hunting Style
    You will see that Control is the 4th thing on that list...marking being the first...which would you think should carry more weight?? And for that, for several years now, Grand judges have been ENTIRELY too quick to make a handler "put the dog on the bird" IMO...and not let the dog hunt...they are called HUNTING retrievers. There are things I don't like, agree with, or condone but its not up to me. As far as Grand judges never having trained their own GRHRCH...there was a time I thought exactly that...then I met and ran under guys like David Mclendon and Jim Hodges...theyve never reached the GRHRCH title but I promise you they belong in that judges chair. Be mad at the Grand Committee...hell you aint the only one with ill feelings however, IMO the best thing you could do is make em give you the ribbon when you pass their test...
    My dog never even got to see a mark. I do respect the one judge who disagreed with the judge who made the call. I've already made up my mind, allI want from HRC is my 500 points. As far as the Grand goes, I THINK I WOULD RATHER TAKE MY CHANCES GOING BARE-BACK IN A BROTHEL THAN RUNNING ANOTHER GRAND!

    Lonnie Spann

  10. #50
    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Spann View Post
    My dog never even got to see a mark. I do respect the one judge who disagreed with the judge who made the call. I've already made up my mind, allI want from HRC is my 500 points. As far as the Grand goes, I THINK I WOULD RATHER TAKE MY CHANCES GOING BARE-BACK IN A BROTHEL THAN RUNNING ANOTHER GRAND!

    Lonnie Spann
    Lonnie you are in the wrong brothell find and exit quick.
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

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