Outing a Trainer

[BonMallari]

Outing a pro on line is MUCH different than doing it in person...I do not think Chris A wants the RTF to be used for that resource, I could be wrong...but like the State Farm commercial, just because you read something on the Net doesnt mean that its true,a lot has to do with perspective and a personal agenda

Its a "buyer beware" business...even when people ask for advice on choosing a pro, there was one comment from an RTF'er that after they submitted their recommendation that the OP should stop looking, there was also an absurd claim that it was posted as a way to tout a particular Pro...both views were way off base

If the resource (RTF) is to be used properly, people should state what their personal experiences are without any malice or slander, which puts the RTF in an undesirable position...

Plus IMO it smacks of bad taste, if you want to submarine someones livelihood, go use FB or drop someone a PM, lets not misuse the resource Chris A. has given us to use for something other than its intended purpose

[Paul "Happy" Gilmore]

As a professional trainer, I hesitate to post on this thread, but what the heck. Years ago when I was just getting started, I used a pro for a short period of time. I didn't do my homework and had a bad experience. He talked a good game and even had some videos out, so I thought he was the genuine article. A short time later, I realized what he was and brought my dog home. Since then, I've seen him at tests and even judged him a couple of times and it's embarrassing to think that I sent a dog to that guy. But if I had really done my homework, that never would have happened. My point is that the client has the responsibility to perform due diligence before turning his dog over to a pro.
As a professional trainer myself, I would never tell a potential client anything negative about this guy (or any other pro), but if they asked me about using him, I would probably suggest some other pro in the same part of the country and let them decide for themselves. I would also give them some ideas about how to properly vet a pro before sending them a dog.
On a separate note, the issue of abusive training can be very complex because different people have different ideas of abuse. Newbies especially have a difficult time understanding some of the methods that we use. I take the approach that a client is ALWAYS welcome to watch me train my whole truck of dogs. If they have questions about my methods, I will do my best to explain them. I also try to train as if the client is always looking over my shoulder. If I wouldn't do it in front of the client, I wouldn't do it when the client isn't there.
But if a novice sees a pro FF a dog and the dog vocalizes, or if he sees a pro use a collar or a stick in a perfectly acceptable manner, he may construe it as abuse and tell others that a trainer is abusive or heavy-handed. That's not necessarily a good thing.
I agree that the bad pros will out themselves. The problem is that there are new folks entering the sport every day, so a slick talker can always keep a few dogs in the pens.
Now before the pro trainer police try to out me, I'm on RTF during the middle of the day because Monday is my day off. No clients are getting screwed while I fool around on the internet. And yes, pro trainers do get days off from time to time.

Good post.

[Scott Parker]

Like most true professions in life ,You are only as good as your last piece of work.
If it is a business,then repeat of that good piece of work will sustain that business.
No Professional dog trainer will remain in that business with successive poor standards of work. They can be seriously affected by singular or one off reports that may or may not be 100% accurate?.
In the business of Dog Training,I have always believed the 'Dog'.

Sometimes word is very slow to get out about an abusive person because people are afraid to say anything and their hoping someone else will do it. Look at Jerry Sandusky a lot of people knew he was abusing children but let it go on for years because they were afraid to go against him but how many children could have been saved from him if they would have spoken out earlier.

[copterdoc]

....Look at Jerry Sandusky a lot of people knew he was abusing children but let it go on for years because they were afraid to go against him but how many children could have been saved from him if they would have spoken out earlier.

If you know of somebody raping dogs, you should probably speak up.

[JusticeDog]

I agree. As long as it's what YOU, have actually seen.

There's a reason that secondhand accounts are called hearsay, and are inadmissible in a Court of Law.

There are exceptions to the hearsay rules.

when I first started in this game, I was at a HT. A "pro" pulled in with a whole truck of barking dogs. I didn't realize he pulled in next to me. I went to go check on my dogs, rounded my truck and found said "pro" with his fist pulled back, punching a dog repeatedly in the face, presumably for barking. Sorry, but test day is not the time to correct barking, and neither was that the proper correction. I did inform the owner. If I had been the owner, I would have wanted to know. And, I am not a wimpy trainer.

[Good Dogs]

If you know of somebody raping dogs, you should probably speak up.

Oh man. I'm still laughing. Thanks for a little humor to lighten the day.

[copterdoc]

There are exceptions to the hearsay rules.

when I first started in this game, I was at a HT. A "pro" pulled in with a whole truck of barking dogs. I didn't realize he pulled in next to me. I went to go check on my dogs, rounded my truck and found said "pro" with his fist pulled back, punching a dog repeatedly in the face, presumably for barking. Sorry, but test day is not the time to correct barking, and neither was that the proper correction. I did inform the owner. If I had been the owner, I would have wanted to know. And, I am not a wimpy trainer.

That's something that you witnessed firsthand.

Not hearsay.

[John Robinson]

There are exceptions to the hearsay rules.

when I first started in this game, I was at a HT. A "pro" pulled in with a whole truck of barking dogs. I didn't realize he pulled in next to me. I went to go check on my dogs, rounded my truck and found said "pro" with his fist pulled back, punching a dog repeatedly in the face, presumably for barking. Sorry, but test day is not the time to correct barking, and neither was that the proper correction. I did inform the owner. If I had been the owner, I would have wanted to know. And, I am not a wimpy trainer.

I have seen owners suspended for long periods by AKC for kicking or abusing their dogs in anger at a field trial. That guy was lucky you didn't inform the HT commitee or head marshall.

[Wayne Nutt]

Justice Dog. That brings up an off topic question. It is one that I have wondered about. I have never had a barking dog at a test. But have heard lots of barking dogs though. Can you put a bark collar on a dog on the test grounds while he is in the truck? I have often wondered.

[JusticeDog]

Can you put a bark collar on a dog on the test grounds while he is in the truck? I have often wondered.

Yes. Absolutely. take the collar off when you get him out of the truck to run.