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Thread: Outing a Trainer

  1. #51
    Senior Member Swampcollie's Avatar
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    The Field Trial and Hunt Test community isn't all that large.
    It doesn't take long for word to get around when something happens that shouldn't.

  2. #52
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I'm curious how a dog communicates this
    Pete
    I'm not sure how to respond.

    I'm pretty sure that you know a thing or two about reading dogs.

  3. #53
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    Educate yourself about training. Ask what training program is being applied. Most pros will gladly discuss healing sticks, e-collars, FF, etc., because they want you to be familiar with what they are doing with your pup. Don't be afraid to ask questions. You may be surprised at what you'll learn. If your pro doesn't want to discuss his or her training methods, you should be prepared to start asking a lot of questions. A good pro wants you to learn how to keep your dog in tune once they leave him, because if the dog goes sour, the pro looks bad, not you.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Kevinismybrother's Avatar
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    When asked, I recommend certain pros that I think are good at what they do and take great care of the dogs entrusted to them.

    I recommend that there might be better options when asked the name of a pro that I know is either lacking in skill or in the treatment of their animals.
    "Too late smart, too soon old" - Now I finally get it Grandpa

    Dennis Long
    HRCH SHDW MTN Aces and Eights Toby MH "Toby"
    HRCH Barton Creek's Winner Take All MH "Rio"
    Ranger 1997 - 2012
    Ragin' Charge of the Light Brigade "Cannon"

  5. #55
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Scott, I'm thinking about this thread and my friends who have dogs, my hunting partner in particular. We have done NAVHDA events and I once saw him tell a "reputable" pro who was helping train dogs at the training session "You're not doing that with my dog". Trainer had a GSP on a table and was using the chain choker to choke the crap out of the dog "to get his mind right".

    If it were my friend's dog I would not let that go and if I could not get him over right away I would take care of it myself. I would expect him to do the same for me.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  6. #56
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    I'm not sure how to respond.

    I'm pretty sure that you know a thing or two about reading dogs.
    The reason I mentioned this is I have trained a lot of dogs who adopted owners claimed they were abused. when I asked them why they thought that the most common response was because the y look like they were.,,,skittish ,,afraid of this or that. I would ask did you see it being abused. pretty much none of them had.
    Now I have also trained a ton of dogs that were 1 owner dogs,,,being owned at 7,8,or so weeks.
    People would always tell me,,,,,I swear we don't beat our dog. I can tell they are telling the truth because they were great responsible families who loved their dog so much they were willing to invest a lot of money into helping it.

    Generally when I see a "pig" stepping on marks and lining key wholes at 300 yards,,,,,my first thought is WOW that guy did a great job training that dog. No one likes to watch that ,,,,but if you ever trained a dog that was like that you would appreciate the patience and fairness that went into getting that dog where it is. I mentioned this because some dogs go into avoidance very very easily and while they appear before training to really love to work they don't have the right personality to deal favorable with pressure of any kind as a matter of fact some avoid the simplest command even when food is offered,when training first begins. Often when people inexperience people see things like this they chaulk it up to abuse.
    So things aren't always what they seem especially to new people in the sport.
    Pete
    Last edited by Pete; 02-13-2013 at 08:36 AM.
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdgnyc View Post
    Scott, I'm thinking about this thread and my friends who have dogs, my hunting partner in particular. We have done NAVHDA events and I once saw him tell a "reputable" pro who was helping train dogs at the training session "You're not doing that with my dog". Trainer had a GSP on a table and was using the chain choker to choke the crap out of the dog "to get his mind right".

    If it were my friend's dog I would not let that go and if I could not get him over right away I would take care of it myself. I would expect him to do the same for me.
    To quote someone on here (I can't describe what abuse is but I know it when I see it) I started this thread because I was wondering why most people are so reluctant to say anything when they know someone is an abusive trainer. I understand that what some people may conceive as being abusive is just them not understanding what's going on. But there are times when it is very clear cut and people still are reluctant to get involved. There is a trainer that I know of who's been in business for quite awhile that people whisper about but don't really talk openly about him abusing dogs. I've never been on his property to train but I know others who have and they've seen him beating dogs on one occasion two people I know told me they saw him hit a dog over the head several times with a tire tool. They all say they won't spread it around what goes on there but they would never recommend him as a trainer to anyone. Years ago before I knew what he was like and thought he was a nice guy I saw him come off the line at a HT all red in the face dragging a dog back to the truck I saw him get a stick out and then drag the dog off into the bushes I ran in an stopped him before he could do anything and warned him I'd report him if I ever caught him doing that again. Most of his clients are not in the retriever community they are wealthy people that send dogs to him to be gun dogs and then he talks them into running HT so they don't know what's going on with their dogs he's a very smooth talker and puts on a good show for his clients. There's not much I can do because I don't have any evidence or proof to back it up as to what he's doing and no one that has witnessed him abusing dogs will say anything I just feel like it needs to stop before more dogs suffer at his hands.
    Last edited by Scott Parker; 02-13-2013 at 02:01 PM.
    HRCH Dallys Wild Willow SH Born 11-06-97 Left Us 1-30-12 will always be in my thoughts RIP Willow

  8. #58
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    The reason I mentioned this is I have trained a lot of dogs who adopted owners claimed they were abused. when I asked them why they thought that the most common response was because they look like they were.,,,skittish ,,afraid of this or that. I would ask did you see it being abused. pretty much none of them had.
    Now I have also trained a ton of dogs that were 1 owner dogs,,,being owned at 7,8,or so weeks.
    People would always tell me,,,,,I swear we don't beat our dog. I can tell they are telling the truth because they were great responsible families who loved their dog so much they were willing to invest a lot of money into helping it.

    Generally when I see a "pig" stepping on marks and lining key wholes at 300 yards,,,,,my first thought is WOW that guy did a great job training that dog. No one likes to watch that ,,,,but if you ever trained a dog that was like that you would appreciate the patience and fairness that went into getting that dog where it is. I mentioned this because some dogs go into avoidance very very easily and while they appear before training to really love to work they don't have the right personality to deal favorable with pressure of any kind as a matter of fact some avoid the simplest command even when food is offered,when training first begins. Often when people inexperience people see things like this they chaulk it up to abuse.
    So things aren't always what they seem especially to new people in the sport.
    Pete
    That's a really good point.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    The reason I mentioned this is I have trained a lot of dogs who adopted owners claimed they were abused. when I asked them why they thought that the most common response was because the y look like they were.,,,skittish ,,afraid of this or that. I would ask did you see it being abused. pretty much none of them had.
    Now I have also trained a ton of dogs that were 1 owner dogs,,,being owned at 7,8,or so weeks.
    People would always tell me,,,,,I swear we don't beat our dog. I can tell they are telling the truth because they were great responsible families who loved their dog so much they were willing to invest a lot of money into helping it.

    Generally when I see a "pig" stepping on marks and lining key holes at 300 yards,,,,,my first thought is WOW that guy did a great job training that dog. No one likes to watch that ,,,,but if you ever trained a dog that was like that you would appreciate the patience and fairness that went into getting that dog where it is. I mentioned this because some dogs go into avoidance very very easily and while they appear before training to really love to work they don't have the right personality to deal favorable with pressure of any kind as a matter of fact some avoid the simplest command even when food is offered,when training first begins. Often when people inexperience people see things like this they chaulk it up to abuse.
    So things aren't always what they seem especially to new people in the sport.
    Pete
    A dog that originates from some unbeknownst backyard will probably not have the trainability factor that one of the breedings specifically for our purpose does but it is still trainable to some degree.

    Pete you need to frame that post - it is as insightful as any I have read on training .
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  10. #60
    Senior Member Cut em Shelby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    A dog that originates from some unbeknownst backyard will probably not have the trainability factor that one of the breedings specifically for our purpose does but it is still trainable to some degree.
    I don't know about all that...

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