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average pass fail rate to achieve MH

5K views 20 replies 19 participants last post by  Tim Carrion 
#1 ·
What is, or do you think is the average amount of test pass fail ratio it takes to achieve a MH?
 
#3 ·
i understand the variables and agree that is why I ask. There was a previois thread that had statements along the lines of "if it took 12 attempts to get a MH that was probably not a good/great dog, a pig". The opposite of that could be a very talented dog high drive with an inexperienced handler.

So maybe it's better to break it down into 2 questions.

How many tests would it take to get a MH with an experienced trainer with good dog?

How many tests would it take to get a MH with an average/ weekend warrior trainer with a good dog?
 
#4 ·
still doesn't matter...

an average guy with a below average dog and 6 years of training might make MH with a 0 fail rate

a great trainer pushing the envelope with a great 1 1/2 year old might fail a few times getting it done

with tests it's all about the objectives of the trainer really

if MH is just something you want to do for fun and you're willing to take your time, no reason to ever fail with a capable dog

if you have a talented bitch you want to breed once her health clearances are done, then you may push to get the title early in life
 
#11 ·
if MH is just something you want to do for fun and you're willing to take your time, no reason to ever fail with a capable dog
I disagree with this statement. There are just too many variables to ensure a capable dog does not fail. One of my dogs failed a weekend test both before and after passing the Master National. She is and was very capable. One failure was a direct result of my training. Annie was bringing me ducks out of an orange bucket while airing. Told her "No, leave it" and went on. Next time her head went in the bucket she received a low burn along with a "No". Next test they used an orange bucket to mark the blind. The lesson was well learned and Annie wouldn't go within 10 feet of the bucket.

All dogs have weaknesses and many amatuer dogs have holes in their training. These are often exposed at a test. Master tests are hard for a reason.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I needed six passes to obtain my MASTERS title with my first dog as I didn't run JR or SR. I was also a new ameteur trainer and handler. This is my first dog running at the hunt test level. I also run HRC. I failed three MASTERS test while trying to obtain the title, so I passed 6 of 9 tests. Of course it didn't help running these tests as my dog is almost completely blind. After watching many dogs run, I believe most failures are due to handling errors and inexperienced trainers. With a solid training program, you should fail very few tests no matter what you are running.
 
#6 ·
Darrin is correct as too many variables to consider, and all of that plays into it when considering the averages, etc.

I think I read here somewhere from retrieverresults.com (or .net) that it took an average of 9-10 tests to complete the 5 required passes, and that the average age was 4 years old when a dog would become MH.
 
#7 ·
So, back when I ran only junior level, I used to look at pass/fail on dogs at the upper levels regularly. My thinking was that if it took a dog too many tries to get an advanced title, there must be something wrong with the dog. Piggy, not birdy, dud, etc. Since I started run Senior and master a couple years ago, I no longer look at that. I can say, with confidence, that 50% of the time OR BETTER, it has been my fault the dog hasn't passed. Not the test, not the dog. When looking for a dog to breed to now, I want to know who trained them and who's running them. I want to see them.

God, thinking about it actually makes me groan. The amount of money I've put out and then blown the wrong damn whistle or given the wrong cast! Ouch! My dogs don't care though! They still usually get a bird or two!

Sue Puffy
 
#8 ·
AKC puts out stats on pass rate for obedience classes, I would love to see them do the same for pass rate at master for untitled vs. titled dogs.
 
#9 ·
When I was very new to running HT, after a couple years of dedicated training with a very accomplished mentor, I jumped in with both feet running MH without having ever run JH or SH.

After my 2nd consecutive bonehead handling performace my mentor asked me "Why don't you let that dog pass one of these things?"
 
#10 ·
I think it all depends on how darkly colored a person's rose colored glasses are! Whether they use those glass to see their dog's performance, their handling skills, their training skills, the test setup, the judges, the grounds, the logistics of the club, the weather, etc, etc...

But I would gander once a person matures in the sport and has a decent dog, with a decent training program/plan, and is a decent handler barring just general/legitimate bad luck (it happens) - I would say 6 to 8 passes to get an MH? At least that is what i'd strive for. But then again what do I know? I've only ran a handful of Masters and am really focused on FTs, so take my unscientific guess for what it is.
 
#12 · (Edited)
There's a thread somewhere in the past where someone posted up the statistics, I think for a amateur it was something like 10-12 MH tests for a title. I think it even had the statistic in different areas of the country, let's you know where you should and shouldn't be running to have better odds ;)

I think this was the one
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?84748-MH-Stats&highlight=greenwood
or
http://www.retrievertraining.net/fo...tistics-on-AKC-Hunt-Tests&highlight=greenwood
 
#13 ·
I would agree with Suepuff, I have not run any masters yet, my first will come in May but of the JH/SH tests I ran, the ones I failed (2 SH) were because of my bonehead mistakes. Mostly not taking my time with casting etc. This dog is ready for master and as long as I can keep my wits about me I think she will do fine. I would be happy getting a MH within 6 or 7 tests. I hope I am not kidding myself.
Oncini
 
#16 ·
My yellow dog and I passed 5 of 8 to get his title (had his SH). I know more of those "fails" were on me than him.:( That is better than the average MH test pass rate of 42% in this area.
We have passed 8 of the last 9 thanks to a lot of help training the handler. :rolleyes:

My black dog is 1 for 2. While he has more talent, he is a head case by the third series, and I hope it takes less than 10 tries to get his 5 passes for a title. 50% would still be better than the average though. ;-)
 
#17 ·
Too many variables is correct. We had a dog pass 6 for 6 without a handle on any mark and then we have had two dogs that have passed 3 and 2 consecutively out of about 15 to 20 tries. Both of these were trainer induced problems and we are still trying to perform damage control. Know your trainers and their methods and know your dog and what your dog can take in training. Also a lot of circumstances in the personal lives of trainers can sometimes interfere with a pass/fail rate.

Arleen
 
#18 ·
It takes 6 passes to title MH if the dog is not a SH, I would say the average has to be closer to 8-12. It took me 11 with my 2 year old QAA dog last summer but I know I failed 1 for sure myself and he had 2 bad weekends in a row where he failed 3 tests but then went on and passed the next 3 straight to title. In his defense he does not have the best handler and had never seen a HT set up and never been hunted until 1 month before his first hunt test.
 
#19 ·
The dog I have now I told myself I wouldn't run him unless I knew he was ready I didn't run JH with him so I needed 5 passes for his SH and he went 5 for 5. He was running well so I double staked him the last test and ran MH also he went 5 for 5 in MH and got his title just after he turned 3. I got really busy with work and didn't run him anymore or train very much for the next 6 months I decided to run him in a double MH test even though I hadn't been training much at all he passed both but I could see he was getting a little loose on me so I knew I needed to do a lot of training before the next test which was about 5 weeks away. Well work got in the way again and I only got out and trained a couple times before I had to go to the next test I wasn't going to run him but a friend talked me into it. We make it to the last series and only had one more bird to pick up to pass but failed to get it. I think if you want to have a good pass rate you need to only run when your sure your dog is ready and there are still no guarantees you'll pass but the odds are more in your favor.
 
#20 ·
This is my record with my Yellow girl:
Junior Ran 5 tests to get 4 passes and title
Senior Ran 15 tests to get 4 passes and title
Master Ran 6 tests to get 5 passes and title

Needless to say, Senior was a real ball buster and after 11 senior test failures, the girl went to a trainer for 4 months, came home and ran 4 for 4 and right into Master. There were some long drives home after a weekend of running Senior when I wondered what the heck I was doing, but I was having such a good time and made so many new friends that I stuck with it! Mercy was my first Lab that I introduced into this sport, and a very very forgiving dog...Like Sue Puff said, I was all over the map with my dog and when I finally learned how to handle, we as a team started bringing a ribbon or two home. I really love this sport and the people I've met who share my enthusiasm!
 
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