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Thread: left-sided and both sided dogs

  1. #131
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    OK
    Can you explain what you do in training that makes dog keen to look up at you?
    Over here, that only time my dog looks at me is when returning to heel with bird.
    With dog at heel like in your videos, my dog would be scanning the field trying to sort out where the guns were or what have you.
    We do a fair amount of specific training to teach dog to look out into field, as that's where the birds are.
    That's not a drill or exercise on it's own Breck,and would take far too much explaining and I would probably end up writing a book (god forbid)
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  2. #132
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    OK
    I understand. Pretty good work really.
    If you put your dog through our Wagon Wheel lining drill and get that sorted out you can get a bit more advanced doing precise lining drills to visible targets like in this drawing.
    Dogs really get jacked up doing this drill.
    Lining drill.jpg
    .
    .
    .
    LH this field might be good for a lining drill
    .
    nearby field.jpg
    Last edited by Breck; 02-15-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    OK
    I understand. Pretty good work really.
    If you put your dog through our Wagon Wheel lining drill and get that sorted out you can get a bit more advanced doing precise lining drills to visible targets like in this drawing.
    Dogs really get jacked up doing this drill.
    Lining drill.jpg
    .
    .
    .
    LH this field might be good for a lining drill
    .
    nearby field.jpg
    Breck, you're about a mile out!!! But nice detective work. Although I feel like I've got a stalker now. LOL

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    OK
    Can you explain what you do in training that makes dog keen to look up at you?
    Over here, that only time my dog looks at me is when returning to heel with bird.
    With dog at heel like in your videos, my dog would be scanning the field trying to sort out where the guns were or what have you.
    We do a fair amount of specific training to teach dog to look out into field, as that's where the birds are.
    Breck, I think we require our dogs to be a lot more "with us" here, and focused on their handlers, and over-riding to some extent their desire to be totally focussed on 'out there'. I call it 'importance of you (me)', and to me, it is one of the most important qualities that I look for when training a young dog. That desire to be working WITH you rather than for themselves. When push comes to shove, that total obedience, over-riding what they may have seen that they want and going where YOU tell them.

    Flip side is though, also strong marking ability and locking on to marks 'out there' when required.... so a real juggling act.

    That's why I, for one, never train a dog to return with the bird to heel, but always straight to the front, so that it is focused on me. I'm more important than retrieving (or I should be). A dog that returns to heel and self-sets up (over here, not talking about your totally different USA game) is not thinking about you, and is totally focussing on self-satisfying with getting its next retrieve, or what it perceives to be its next retrieve above anything else. That is possibly something that is more highly prized in your game, rather than ours.

  5. #135
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennel maiden View Post
    Breck, I think we require our dogs to be a lot more "with us" here, and focused on their handlers, and over-riding to some extent their desire to be totally focussed on 'out there'. I call it 'importance of you (me)', and to me, it is one of the most important qualities that I look for when training a young dog. That desire to be working WITH you rather than for themselves. When push comes to shove, that total obedience, over-riding what they may have seen that they want and going where YOU tell them.

    Flip side is though, also strong marking ability and locking on to marks 'out there' when required.... so a real juggling act.

    That's why I, for one, never train a dog to return with the bird to heel, but always straight to the front, so that it is focused on me. I'm more important than retrieving (or I should be). A dog that returns to heel and self-sets up (over here, not talking about your totally different USA game) is not thinking about you, and is totally focussing on self-satisfying with getting its next retrieve, or what it perceives to be its next retrieve above anything else. That is possibly something that is more highly prized in your game, rather than ours.
    We have the same "juggling act" with our field trials, that balance of team player versus self motovated marker, but the big differences between our sports is that we really need our dogs to focus on the field. In our all age field trials marking is of primary importance and dogs, and dog training, have evolved to such a high degree of difficulty, only the very strongest, highly motovated dogs succeed. One of the qualities we prize in our good markers is what we call the "look out".

    I'll explain by example of my first dog who was a very good hunt test dog, but didn't have what it takes to run field trials. Our hunt test keep marks near 100 yards or less and Kimo was very good at that, but when I started training him with my younger field trial dog on field trial marks, he was either unable or unwilling to "look out" at the longer punch bird mark. If we had a triple, say a long 300 yard mark up the middle with a 150 yard memory bird on the left and a 75 yard go-bird on the right, Kimo would look from the right bird to the left, and there was nothing I could do, including singles to get him to look out at the long bird. On the other hand a good field trial dog will approach the line looking out in the field and picking out guns near or far. I'll let my more experienced dog sit on the line by himself and figure out the test based on his eyesight and experience, before I settle in beside him to reinforce a critical mark. This ability to focus out in the field in a laser like manner is very important to us.

    John

  6. #136
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    When our dogs return with a bird, many handlers bring dog to heel and with bird in mouth focus dog on next bird for a moment before taking bird. make sense?
    Actually, I'm fairly certain we place far less emphases on dog focusing on us as you do.
    As our marks are usually difficult to remember we place most emphases on that.
    Rather than look up at me one of my dogs (who is over the top with "self satisfaction" when it comes to birds lol) "stays in touch" with me by placing his paw on my boot so he doesn't miss much.
    The only time he ever looks up is when hes unsure what I want of him.
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    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
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  7. #137
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Believe me that focus changes when in a 'Live game environment' ,certainly further north of KM, the norm, is 'Walk up' ,whether in competition or 'Rough shooting'!..even then ,On a 'Driven game day', the focus is 'All on the field'...The training scenarios and set ups /drills ,only give a 'Nursery course' to what may be encountered. Invariably,it is the experience of actually 'shooting in all environments' that 'trains/learns the dog (over here)
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  8. #138
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    OK
    I understand. Pretty good work really.
    If you put your dog through our Wagon Wheel lining drill and get that sorted out you can get a bit more advanced doing precise lining drills to visible targets like in this drawing.
    Dogs really get jacked up doing this drill.
    Lining drill.jpg
    .
    .
    .
    LH this field might be good for a lining drill
    .
    nearby field.jpg
    Breck really like the lining drill you showed us awhile back. Do on days like today where I am dodging ice in the field. Run only on the open grass. Oh the weather!! But I have also done it on good days and in different fields. Must confess though I don't use the white buckets. Great drill.
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  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    and employing a heeling stick in training.

    this is how we use a heeling stick in training....

    Susan

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  10. #140
    Senior Member Jerry S.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    this is how we use a heeling stick in training....

    Doesn't Andy train your dogs?

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