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Thread: My HRC Grand experience...

  1. #141
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Lets play scenario time.

    your dog has just picked up last bird of a triple.
    The next requirement of the test is to run a blind from that same line.
    As the dog is returning with the bird, what actions are you taking with YOUR position to aid in the way the dog is lined?
    Are you properly facing the blind?Does your dog show Finished Obediance standards?
    Will he come directly to Heel and be automatically lined up correctly?
    whats with all the fuss at the line, lining the dog?kick the sucker off and Handel the beast

    Senario number 2

    you have to run the blind first. How do you as a handler approach the line with the dog OBEDIANTLY at heel?

    Once you get there did you approach in a manner that once the dog is just told to sit,is he pretty much lined up?

    whats all the fuss at the line lining the dog?
    kick the sucker off and handle!

    Go ahead shoot away , but please use politically correct plastic bullets
    We don't want anybody hurt here,

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  2. #142
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    kick the sucker off and handle!
    Maybe for a hunt tester that attitude is fine. But, in a trial where it's my dog's job against all comers I want the absolutely best blind we are capable of doing. A good clean initial line is the first part of it. Even if you don't get the initial line you wanted the dog should have gotten a better initial line than if you hadn't sweet talked to him, and it'll be a better blind because you've talked him into it. One hopes anyway. Some dogs can get a picture and even if you don't get exactly what you want, you get a better blind because the dog has gotten the picture and has an idea of the blind.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  3. #143
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    "kick the sucker off and handle!"

    I see this quite a bit when I judge. It usually results in a so-so blind or worse. Not a good stategy on game day, if you ask me. But then, nobody asked me....-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  4. #144
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    So Howard and Paul picked six words from my post and ignored the rest.

    I bet MOST guys running HRC tests, would be amazed at Howard as he comes to the line, and his actions and the way he helps his dog through the process.


    I have never watched Howard run, but I have watched other FT's.

    My point in my response was that I beleive many guys dont think about getting themselves into position to recieve the dog before they run the blind.
    If THEY (handler) were lined up correctly,, and thier DOG was OBEDIENT, and honored the Heel command as it returned with that last mark of the triple,,,
    there SHOULD be little if Any tweeking and repeating the heel command to get the dog lined up/

    Also.. as in the example of a handler having to repete the heel command 5 or 6 times,, if the dog was basically in the correct position to begin with,,, and the first couple of Heel commands didnt get you anything,, what the heck do you think the other 3 or 4 is gonna get you, other than confusion,,?

    I think it best in this instance, to kick the dog off and handel... In HUNT TESTS,,, you MAY get a notation on your sheet for a poor initial line, but if you put the dog back on line, and the dog takes those cast and handels ,,, well all is good.

    Remember in HRC the is no defined path to the blind., Judging consists of progress towards that destination, with few cast and whistle refusals ....Teamwork ! Holding that FINITE line that Howard works for, is unnecessary in HRC 150 yrd blind work... Lets keep this apples to Apples

    JMHDAO.
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 02-21-2013 at 06:40 AM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  5. #145
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    "kick the sucker off and handle!"

    I see this quite a bit when I judge. It usually results in a so-so blind or worse. Not a good stategy on game day, if you ask me. But then, nobody asked me....-Paul
    Paul

    With all due respect, I bet you have also in your judging experience,,seen handlers repete Way too many commands, with absolutly no response from the dog..
    What does it gain just repeting them?
    What has that shown YOU as a Judge??
    What will you then continue to look for.

    Hasnt that handler shown you his hand?

    I just about bet in a situation of a handler harping on a dog with the heel command, getting no results, with show you all kinds of reasons to drop them,, as the dog fails then to show control on that blind..

    Again

    JMHDAO

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 02-21-2013 at 06:50 AM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  6. #146
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    Are you failing to grasp that some dogs have been trained well enough to move in small increments therefore the need to tell them heel or here numerous until you get the proper alignment. Your body position will affect the dogs body position but then comes the fine tuning and the need for the heel and here command to be repeated. Why not line the dog properly before sending instead of just sending and handling as you suggest. Your always on here talking high standards but you half ass line your dog and send him. Keep it up and let us know how that works out for you when you run something other that a finished test. If I'm running a finished blind I'm not sending my dog until I think he's lined up well enough to line it. Some people just can't see the Forrest through the trees.
    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Paul

    With all due respect, I bet you have also in your judging experience,,seen handlers repete Way too many commands, with absolutly no response from the dog..
    What does it gain just repeting them?
    What has that shown YOU as a Judge??
    What will you then continue to look for.

    Hasnt that handler shown you his hand?

    I just about bet in a situation of a handler harping on a dog with the heel command, getting no results, with show you all kinds of reasons to drop them,, as the dog fails then to show control on that blind..

    Again

    JMHDAO

    Gooser
    Last edited by Justin Allen; 02-21-2013 at 07:59 AM.

  7. #147
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    In the example the rest of us are referencing the dog is responding to the heel command, keep that in mind. We're talking a well trained dog not the average dog at a finished test. This dog is versed in lining and moves small at the line. You seem to be overlooking that small tidbit and it's making your argument get off track. If the dog isint responding to the command as you suggest then I agree it needs to be noted and the team should be penalized to an extent for it, but in this scenario that isint the case. I have two finished level dogs, one is about to begin running the q and the other will be as soon as we're ready coming off of a tplo. They both are good at the line when it comes time to line up for a blind. On any given instance I may say here or heel a half dozen times or more to get th em where I feel they need to be. Yes ive done my part relative to my alignment before i ever have them sit, thats pretty basic. Why do ww in the yard if you aren't going to put it to use. Whether the blind is 100 or 300 I want my dog to be on it and I don't want to have to blow a whistle within the first 50 yds if possible. Ive had that attitude for some time now and they both have turned into quite the lining dogs for someone like me to run. Keep those high standards regards.
    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Paul

    With all due respect, I bet you have also in your judging experience,,seen handlers repete Way too many commands, with absolutly no response from the dog..
    What does it gain just repeting them?
    What has that shown YOU as a Judge??
    What will you then continue to look for.

    Hasnt that handler shown you his hand?

    I just about bet in a situation of a handler harping on a dog with the heel command, getting no results, with show you all kinds of reasons to drop them,, as the dog fails then to show control on that blind..

    Again

    JMHDAO

    Gooser
    Last edited by Justin Allen; 02-21-2013 at 08:13 AM.

  8. #148
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    ....whats all the fuss at the line lining the dog?
    kick the sucker off and handle!.......
    Gooser
    Gooser,
    what would CL say to you if you asked her this question at your next weekend training day?
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  9. #149
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Here in the RTF we are getting different opinions on this. It is fair to say that in the AKC hunting test judge's pool there will be a myriad of opinions also. We've gotta live with it and realize not everyone sees things the way I do or you do.

    I've spent hours a month for two decades lining up dogs on initial lines for blinds. I'm sure I see things differently than someone on his first dog that a pro trained to a MH level; and he/she might be holding the book that weekend.
    Or... In an AKC FT, someone who has never run a dog at that level at all. Sometimes they have good dog sense, sometimes they don't. Look out if they have no dog sense , but a strong personality.
    Bill Davis

  10. #150
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    We have put HRCH titles on two trial dogs and AKC Master Hunt test titles on five trial dogs. For the most part never trained in a hunt test mode. Exception was I had to teach them to swing with the gun for the HRCH. I know almost nothing about the Grand except what I have been told. My personal experience with blinds in both venues more so with HRC handling is the rule of thumb even on marks at least in one or two series and still pass. Field trial blind handling is all about a straight line or working through great hazards. Critical lining is what it is all about, setting up the dog before sending to get a good initial line. Many of the hunt test dogs could never pass muster in a field trial senarios especially in water with their blind work. It doesn't mean hunt test dogs are not well schooled,but, handling is accepted standard.
    I for the most part always used field trial blind trial standards when running hunt tests.
    Earl Dillow

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