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Thread: AKC HT Scenario, Position for Sending on a Blind

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Like Doublehaul I've seen it numerous times in field trials, I never had to do it when I was running hunt test. The whole set up is pretty contrived and not natural to a real hunting situation.
    When hunting flooded timber we put the dog on a stump or log and had to remote cast to send dog on mark or blind...I had a friend that sat the dog 15 feet from the blind in standing corn when hunting geese ....Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Hunted a place in Alaska for years where we layed out on the ice in mummy blinds. We had the dogs stationed about 40 yards behind us in the edge of the woods. We put insulated mats there for the dogs to sit on. When we knocked ducks down into the river, we would send the dogs. After the retrieve, they were told to kennel and they went back to the mats to wait for the next opportunity. No problem... One was a trial/HT dog, one was a HT dog. Both were full time hunting dogs.
    Bill Davis

  3. #13
    Senior Member Gary Wayne Abbott I's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpmm665 View Post
    A discussion came up the other day in training pertaining to the position a handler may send a dog on a blind. As per the AKC HT rules, page 23, section 13; Position. When ordered to retrieve, the handler shall direct his dog from any position designated by the Judges.


    Scenario: AKC Senior HT. Judges do NOT specify that dog must be sent from handlers side/heel position on a blind. Team comes to the line, handler puts dog in front facing position, sends dog on BACK. Dog successfully executes the retrieve.


    Question(s): Has anyone ever encountered this scenario? Was the handler told they could not do that? Has anyone ever been specifically instructed to send a dog on a blind from a front facing position in an AKC Senior or Master Test?

    I have done as described successfully in a AKC Senior Hunting test several times.

    Once I inherited a older, struggling JH dog that for the first few months I had him on his blinds he would no go, spin, growl, try to bite, bite, pop 3ft off line after sending and then come after me teeth bared, but if I got him ten yards off the line the rest of his blinds were okay. We struggled for a few weeks until I figured out if I started his blinds on a ten yard remote it took the pressure off both of us and all the aforementioned problems pretty much went away and his blinds got better and better. Soon I shortened his remote sends from 10 yards down to 5 yards, 5 feet and by the second month down to 5 inches. We passed his first three Seniors in a row on remote sends just inches from me. You have never seen judges go into a quicker huddle and discussion or a gallery into a eager buzz of "can you do that's?" then after one of his remote blinds. I suppose it helped his blinds were always well above average that we were never questioned or dropped nor do I think he ever failed a blind. By his fourth Senior and through out his Masters he graduated to being sent from a heel position and actually turned out to be be a pretty good dog. In addition to his MH he actually ended up several Qualifying 3rd and 4th place ribbons as well as numerous Jams.

    Feared by ducks, envied by hunters and loved by dogs.

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  4. #14
    Senior Member cpmm665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Wayne Abbott I View Post
    I have done as described successfully in a AKC Senior Hunting test several times.

    Once I inherited a older, struggling JH dog that for the first few months I had him on his blinds he would no go, spin, growl, try to bite, bite, pop 3ft off line after sending and then come after me teeth bared, but if I got him ten yards off the line the rest of his blinds were okay. We struggled for a few weeks until I figured out if I started his blinds on a ten yard remote it took the pressure off both of us and all the aforementioned problems pretty much went away and his blinds got better and better. Soon I shortened his remote sends from 10 yards down to 5 yards, 5 feet and by the second month down to 5 inches. We passed his first three Seniors in a row on remote sends just inches from me. You have never seen judges go into a quicker huddle and discussion or a gallery into a eager buzz of "can you do that's?" then after one of his remote blinds. I suppose it helped his blinds were always well above average that we were never questioned or dropped nor do I think he ever failed a blind. By his fourth Senior and through out his Masters he graduated to being sent from a heel position and actually turned out to be be a pretty good dog. In addition to his MH he actually ended up several Qualifying 3rd and 4th place ribbons as well as numerous Jams.

    Great story and very encouraging, thank you for sharing this. We were working with a young dog, he's doing Senior level work, but just won't leave from heel on the first send, put him in a front sit and he'll go every time. We'll keep working on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Like Doublehaul I've seen it numerous times in field trials, I never had to do it when I was running hunt test. The whole set up is pretty contrived and not natural to a real hunting situation.
    I'm going to step into "the wayback machine" for a minute to give an example of a test where a remote send blind was part of the test and not at all contrived. This, of course, was when AKC HT's still had some hunt in them.....

    This test was held in knee high wild grasses interspersed with patches of alder and poplar at the base of a flood control dam in New Hampshire. The scenario was a grouse and woodcock hunt. The dogs were encouraged to hunt by scenting the area. They were NOT at heel. After a short hunt along the scented route, as the dog entered a good sized clearing, there was a dry shot to the dog's right. At this time, the handler was to whistle sit the dog. Most dogs were 10-15 yards from the handler at this point. The dogs were sent remotely to a planted bird about 70 yards away. After the blind was delivered, a shot flier was launched from the same location as the the earlier dry shot, then two more dead birds were thrown from well hidden locations to the left, and shot from the line. These marks were 50-60 yards from the "line" and went down in thick clumps of alder. I thought this was exceptionally good use of terrain and cover in a pretty realistic hunting situation. It took marking ability, perseverance and very good control to complete satisfactorally. BY the way, one of the judges was a Pro from Georgia and this test was his idea. The guy knows hunting dogs and how to test them!

    Quite a departure from AKC Master tests of today.- Paul
    Last edited by paul young; 02-17-2013 at 09:49 AM. Reason: spelling
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpmm665 View Post
    Great story and very encouraging, thank you for sharing this. We were working with a young dog, he's doing Senior level work, but just won't leave from heel on the first send, put him in a front sit and he'll go every time. We'll keep working on it.
    What does the dog do on lining drills or pattern blinds?-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

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    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    gosh Paul that sounds like a test Wes Reed and, was it you? set up in that same spot. I drove over and entered a dog. But we were playing by another dog game rule book. Granite State's spring tests, home of the snow dried birds
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

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    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpmm665 View Post
    Great story and very encouraging, thank you for sharing this. We were working with a young dog, he's doing Senior level work, but just won't leave from heel on the first send, put him in a front sit and he'll go every time. We'll keep working on it.

    A quick crutch, not a fix or a why, just a crutch. Line up dog as well as able, and at the same instant the “B” of the word back comes from your lips. Take a step forward with the leg next to the dog. I have seen this work more than once on dogs that were screwed down tight and hard on not moving or breaking sit. Not saying this one has. But the dogs I am talking about were trying so hard to be good, by sitting still. That one step, the crutch, let um know it their goofy dog mind that it was OK to go.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  9. #19
    Senior Member cpmm665's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    What does the dog do on lining drills or pattern blinds?-Paul
    Paul, this pup isn't my dog or one I'm training. I don't know enough about his training history to comment. From my observation, pup is confused about being sent from heel position on a blind, he will go, but it takes about 3 commands. He's lacking confidence, the switch hasn't fully engaged yet.

    My query was initiated by the handler making the statement, "if only I could send him from a front sit". That got me thinking about the rule book and why not?

  10. #20
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    That is a great post, Gary..and .."until I figured out if I started his blinds on a ten yard remote it took the pressure off both of us.." was brilliant!

    Hey, Ken....taking that step with B... , "stepping up" on the dog, to give them a push out there like on a long punch bird in a marking situation and it does give them a good push as you say.

    Someone said..."I saw you step up on him"..not too long ago when sending on a mark. My dog was taking just a little longer than usual locating that long memory bird, so when he settled in on the location, .."good", Sebec/step.. I was ok with it but evidently it was not approved of. Whatever..this was in training, if it helps with success and confidence, it works for me. If I had to, I would step up in a trial as well. Knowing that standing still..is important.

    Have never had a remote send in a HT or FT so this is a very interesting thread..and turns out to be helpful as well just in case.

    However, all the training giving the dog tons of pictures to identify or having a nice dog that will scan..and lock for you, ..a remote send at test or trial seems to defeat the purpose of all that training and not using natural quality of a dog that scans and locks.

    Tight turning dog..and holding a straight line on remote (whistle) sit is always a great thing. Remote send at the line is a different concept...judging...? Initial cast (send) ... Well, I guess not. Either way, the dog should take the cast and hold it for some distance, at least, to do well, strong not weak blinds. Not sure that I would ask that in a trial if judging. In fact, doubtful.

    Gary's use of remote sends..more than likely saved that Lab from not living the great life he had, a really great read!

    Hopefully, others having the issue might read this thread..rather than give up.

    Sometimes RTF is a very good place

    Judy
    Last edited by Judy Chute; 02-17-2013 at 02:15 PM.
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