The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Thread: Is this where we are headed?

  1. #11
    Senior Member sick lids's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    mukwonago, wi
    Posts
    379

    Default

    I would look to the cdc for stats. The breakdown of % of abortions to live births by race would make this a racial issue also.

  2. #12
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Berlin, WI
    Posts
    10,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Of the 1,250,000+ abortions in 2012, does anyone know how many were due to rape, incest or the Mothers health being in danger??
    OK RK, I'll answer......less than 12% are due to rape, incest or Mothers health.

    The other 88% are convenience abortions.

    Nice choice!!!
    Stan b & Elvis

  3. #13
    Senior Member sick lids's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    mukwonago, wi
    Posts
    379

    Default

    I would think that % is over double what it really is on the high side.

  4. #14
    Senior Member GoldenSail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    109

    Default

    While I cringe at the idea of late term abortions there are medical reasons to be able to do so. With abortions in general I do not like them, but I am not sure which is the greater evil. Children born into families who do not want them and cannot afford them? Adding to the stress of the welfare system and overpopulation? Repeating the vicious cycle?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Marty Lee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Cantonment,Florida
    Posts
    422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenSail View Post
    While I cringe at the idea of late term abortions there are medical reasons to be able to do so. With abortions in general I do not like them, but I am not sure which is the greater evil. Children born into families who do not want them and cannot afford them? Adding to the stress of the welfare system and overpopulation? Repeating the vicious cycle?
    not trying to single you out but IMO if we are going to condone abortion we may as well make infanticide legal too. when the babies are born to parents that get tired of them jsut killem......what age should we call it murder 2,3 4???? i personally see NO difference. it is all murder IMO...again this isnt directed to you personally just using your post to voice my opinion, thanks
    Marty Lee
    HRCH Daisey's Rambunctious Rascal "Rambo"
    Co-Owner HRCH Summers Gusty Breeze "Gussie"

  6. #16
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    6,712

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenSail View Post
    While I cringe at the idea of late term abortions there are medical reasons to be able to do so. With abortions in general I do not like them, but I am not sure which is the greater evil. Children born into families who do not want them and cannot afford them? Adding to the stress of the welfare system and overpopulation? Repeating the vicious cycle?
    If they are unwanted children, there is adoption; and many who want to adopt are financially able to support that child. So that is one option.

    The really bad situation is when someone on welfare continues to have children simply to get more monthly income; much of which will not go to caring for those children. I'd give one accident, but after a 2nd, sterilization should be required. Tubal ligations and vasectomies are now possible to reverse ... but you'd have to get off welfare first.

    There are surely costs involved with more children, but there are other aspects, too ... what price on a human life?

    The other question might be, when abortion is readily available for "convenience" does it disincentivize attention to use of contraception? If so, is it costing more to pay for abortions than to pay for contraception? Yet contraception is inexpensive and readily available, so why is there a need for so many abortions?

    With all the tax money we spend to study insignificant things, maybe someone ought to spend some of it usefully to find answers to some of these questions.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  7. #17
    Senior Member GoldenSail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    If they are unwanted children, there is adoption; and many who want to adopt are financially able to support that child. So that is one option.
    It is not that easy! I have a friend who nearly lost her house adopting a child from a very abusive relationship. Dad was a druggie, mom was a stripper both were very young. The adoption agency assumed the dad would not fight for the kid...and they were wrong. I think of this child and how wonderful it is they got to keep him (they actually lost the case, but sperm donor changed his mind at the last minute but went on to have more kids that he kidnapped and used in child porn). He used to be hit and would duck as a child when they went to pick him up. Now that he is older they are seeing some behavioral problems that are likely genetic. He is lucky to have them, but if he hadn't been adopted...

    I am also skeptical that the adoption pool could support that many births...Much better for a child to have never been born than to face a lifetime of abuse, poverty, drugs, etc. Only to grow-up and repeat the cycle.

    But this is what bothers me about right wing conservatives--while they are strictly against abortion they don't want to deal with the consequences of that choice. They complain about making birth control more accessible and affordable and then they complain about the burden of the welfare system and not wanting to add to it. There are also many that are against education in school. It seems like they don't care a lick about that child once it is born--end point is that the agenda is met when the baby is born without concern to what environment that may be.

    Yes you can talk about personal responsibility and yes I would agree with you but at the end of the day you cannot force people to be accountable and responsible. So what is the answer?

  8. #18
    Senior Member sick lids's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    mukwonago, wi
    Posts
    379

    Default

    [QUOTE=

    Yes you can talk about personal responsibility and yes I would agree with you but at the end of the day you cannot force people to be accountable and responsible. So what is the answer?[/QUOTE]

    No but you can freely give them all YOUR money and leave mine alone so that I can help save for my kids education.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brookings, South Dakota
    Posts
    6,755

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    From the NY Times today

    Cuomo Bucks Tide With Bill to Ease Abortion Limit
    s


    By THOMAS KAPLAN

    Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo is preparing legislation that would guarantee women in New York the right to late-term abortions, and remove the issue from the state's penal

    How does one make a case for this? At what point does the Constitution start to step in for the rights of a human being that may be, or are, viable outside the womb?

    If the life of the mother is not in danger, why not wait a few weeks longer and do a C-section?

    Will the latter option cost us all money? I'd guess it would ... but if we can pay big-time taxes to save an endangered owl, crustacean or insect, what is a human life worth?

    I just can't wrap my mind around a late-term abortion that is done for reasons of "convenience".



    I am not in favor of abortion. However I want my daughter's doctor some time in the future to have the option of doing what is best for her in the event a pregnancy goes bad. I don't think it is always as simple as, "just wait a few weeks and do a c-section." When my wife was pregnant she had some really strange things going on with her blood pressure. Thank God everything worked out and I have a kind, beautiful, and very smart 13 year old daughter today.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
    (Esprit's Power Play x Trumarc's Lean Cuisine)
    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
    (Clubmead's Road Warrior x Oakdale Whitewater Devil Dog)
    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
    (Two River's Lucky Willie x Moneybird's Black Magic Marker)

  10. #20
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    6,712

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenSail View Post
    It is not that easy! I have a friend who nearly lost her house adopting a child from a very abusive relationship. Dad was a druggie, mom was a stripper both were very young. The adoption agency assumed the dad would not fight for the kid...and they were wrong. I think of this child and how wonderful it is they got to keep him (they actually lost the case, but sperm donor changed his mind at the last minute but went on to have more kids that he kidnapped and used in child porn). He used to be hit and would duck as a child when they went to pick him up. Now that he is older they are seeing some behavioral problems that are likely genetic. He is lucky to have them, but if he hadn't been adopted...

    I am also skeptical that the adoption pool could support that many births...

    I don't have the stats to know the answer either, but we do know that many people who would like to adopt spend thousands of dollars to do so, and even then there are not always enough babies for these potential parents, so we are seeing adoptions of foreign-born children.


    Much better for a child to have never been born than to face a lifetime of abuse, poverty, drugs, etc. Only to grow-up and repeat the cycle.

    Unless we study the situation, we don't really know that the majority of these babies would be in situations you describe. If RK's stats are correct, many of them may not be.


    But this is what bothers me about right wing conservatives--while they are strictly against abortion they don't want to deal with the consequences of that choice.


    I'm not sure that is a true statement. As one example, Catholic Charities is a major resource for adoptions.


    They complain about making birth control more accessible and affordable

    While Roman Catholics have a religious position on contraception, I cannot think of any others. I don't think anyone on this forum has objected to contraception.

    I would say that birth control is very accessible and very affordable: $7/mo for BC pills at Walmart; very cheap condoms; free condoms in NYC schools; free morning-after pills in NYC schools as well.



    and then they complain about the burden of the welfare system and not wanting to add to it

    Most who object to the welfare system burden are very much in favor of contraception to abate the unwanted pregnancies. Some even feel that mandatory sterilization would be just fine. Abortion is a different issue. And late-term abortion is possibly yet a different issue than the overall issue.



    There are also many that are against education in school.

    Some may disagree with how the subject matter is presented in public school curriculum, but I think most on this forum realize the necessity for providing the information.


    It seems like they don't care a lick about that child once it is born--end point is that the agenda is met when the baby is born without concern to what environment that may be.

    Painted with too broad a brush, I think.

    Yes you can talk about personal responsibility and yes I would agree with you but at the end of the day you cannot force people to be accountable and responsible. So what is the answer?
    I do not have the answer, but I cannot imagine taking a newborn, breathing infant and placing it in a waste heap.

    Buzz, you and I do NOT disagree. When there is a serious medical problem occurring with a pregnancy, then a medical doctor is in a much better position to make the judgment than any legislator or bureaucrat. There could be a reason for a late-term abortion, so any solution, should not rule them out entirely. OTOH, if a baby should survive, then we have a human life to deal with and our Constitution speaks to every life. If such a baby has a serious defect, at the very least it should be shown tenderness and respect, just as we would show to an elderly person who is living his last days of life.

    Gerry
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •