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Thread: what caused your hatred of unions?

  1. #1
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    Default what caused your hatred of unions?

    I am curious. For those of you that hate the unions, what has caused that hatred? I have explained my hatred for "rich" people. Not so much the people themselves, just their actions. Someone recently asked me if I actually hated the rich people or just their actions. Some of those rich people I do personally hate for reasons that make sense to me.

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    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    I don't believe that I hate any specific class of people, I don't know all the members of any class or group. There are certainly individuals that I believe that I could stand by and watch bleed out, but that's always a personal thing. Hatred for a "class" of people leads often comes from class envy and leads to class warfare, neither very productive. My general dislike for unions probably stems from Cesar Chavez' attempts to organize farm labor when some of my families friends were farmers. I am aware that farm laborers often lived in poor conditions and were also often mistreated by some growers, but what you find is that the farmers themselves didn't exactly live opulent lives either, and the laborers actually have quite a bit of power at harvest time. A strike of just three or four days could ruin a farmer and then nobody wins. I really don't care one way of the other if steel workers or miners are unionized. I am also opposed to civil servants being unionized as there really isn't an organized opposing force representing the taxpayers' interests in many situations.
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    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    I worked for at the time a major manufacturer. I was in my early 20's and was not part of the union but decidedly not management. I was the hourly paid timekeeper when I got disgusted. I got dumped into the job (on a non union layoff day). I flat out asked a few questions that day, just so you know.
    1. DO I get a raise? nope
    2. DO I get laid off if I refuse the job? (the job had been posted but I wasn't eligable because I did not have enough time in my current job, same grade level) I actually kinda wanted it for career purposes.
    nope but someone else will be, because you are the only one that can be moved over into the timekeeper job.
    That is the background of how I landed in a job that I never applied for but gave me great exposure over a few years to the inside of union stuff in an environment with lots of layoffs and bumping.
    Note I am a non union low level employee with a lot of access to stuff.

    I saw too many great employees loose their jobs or get bumped down based on seniority not performance.
    As part of the timekeeper stuff I also got the work tickets for machine jobs etc. I had a ton of access to information that meant nothing to the person before me in the job(she retired after 35 years). The position since it was suposed to be all about hours (that changed) reported to Cost Accounting.
    I heard the frustration from the shop steward during those layoffs and bumping. I knew who showed up for work all the time, who actually worked etc.
    I also saw some of those laid off while the leaches who pushed everything to the limit keep their jobs.
    I had a great relationship with the hard workers in the union, 2 of them were the photographer and video guy for my wedding. Another 2 got me hooked on competitive dog games.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

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    Unions definitely had there place in time just like they have in protecting a policeman from the general public and POTUS. I stated this in a previous post. However, give me 3 reasons why I should love them today. If you say fair wage then tell me what that fair wage is because it does have to be the same in California as in Kansas even though we both know the cost of living is different in each place. Remember the government has put us all into the cookie cutter mold just like the North Korean's put everyone into the rice fields.

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    I would like to point out that we may all be members of "Da Union", as Stan likes to chirp. The United States of America is a UNION.
    http://www.cyberlearning-world.com/nhhs/html/union.htm

    A union of disparate individuals with mostly a common goal. The common good.
    Some worry about their "hard earned taxes" going to causes they do not support, and I fully understand. I dislike my taxes going to wars I do not support. Others dislike their taxes going to individuals that do not support themselves. Again, I understand.
    The common good is an elusive concept. We can view it many different ways. I believe, however, that we are all Americans and that the common good should be our "Prime Directive." (Apologies to Star Trek...)

    JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

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    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    I would like to point out that we may all be members of "Da Union", as Stan likes to chirp. The United States of America is a UNION.
    http://www.cyberlearning-world.com/nhhs/html/union.htm

    A union of disparate individuals with mostly a common goal. The common good.
    Some worry about their "hard earned taxes" going to causes they do not support, and I fully understand. I dislike my taxes going to wars I do not support. Others dislike their taxes going to individuals that do not support themselves. Again, I understand.
    The common good is an elusive concept. We can view it many different ways. I believe, however, that we are all Americans and that the common good should be our "Prime Directive." (Apologies to Star Trek...)

    JD
    Well Obama's version of the common good make me vomit!!!!! Hopefully he will rot in hell someday.
    He wants me to bust my but and steal my hard earned money and give it to the do nothing leaches that voted for him... Screw that idiot!
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

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    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    I can understand why some think that workers organizing is bad. I don't agree but I can understand someone feeling that way.

    I grew up in a very conservative, anti-union environment. My grandfather came north from West Virginia as a teenager. He worked as a farmhand and somehow (not sure how) eventually owned his own ground and was a dirt farmer all his life. He lost his farm in the depression and rented the rest of his life until he retired and went to work for an implement dealer in town.

    My family was strongly Republican and I remember vividly the political discussions. When I was pre-teen or thereabouts, the coal mine strikes were in full swing and John L. Lewis, the president of the coal miners union and a native Iowan, was the devil himself in my household. He was a terrifying looking soul with his bushy eyebrows and scowling face ... the only image I ever saw of him ... and I was scared to death with everything I had heard of him.

    I lived a lot of my youth in foster homes, always hearing the same political sentiments, and it stayed with me for a long time. I am not proud of it but I will admit that my first vote was cast for Nixon and the Republican slate in 1960. I considered myself Republican. That's the way I had been raised.

    But as I got out on my own and looked around, I began to realize the world looked a whole lot different to me than I had expected or had been led to believe. I was pretty lucky in that I fell into good paying jobs with decent working conditions, thanks to those before me who had paved the way. I had to work hard but it was worth it.

    I had grown up to believe that people who lived poorly were lazy or had "failed". But as a grown man, I saw people who worked other places in my town and worked just as hard as I did, but earning half as much. I started to feel strongly about protecting what I had and helping others to get the same equity. I don't regret the path I chose and am proud of some of the differences I think I have made.

    I do not share your hatred for the wealthy. There are evil people with money and there are some who are broke. I feel a person should be rewarded for their hard work. I value hard work. But I don't accept financial success as a measure of a man's worth or stature. I have known many a man who worked as hard or harder than any millionaire alive. That man deserves to live a comfortable life and to provide a comfortable life for his family. I am not a socialist but in a country where someone can achieve wealth to the point of vulgarity, it is not necessary to accept that others who work hard must live in, or near poverty.

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

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  8. #8
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    luvmylabs, you seem very bitter about something. I am sorry for you.

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American, though it may be too little too late now.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    I can understand why some think that workers organizing is bad. I don't agree but I can understand someone feeling that way.

    I grew up in a very conservative, anti-union environment. My grandfather came north from West Virginia as a teenager. He worked as a farmhand and somehow (not sure how) eventually owned his own ground and was a dirt farmer all his life. He lost his farm in the depression and rented the rest of his life until he retired and went to work for an implement dealer in town.

    My family was strongly Republican and I remember vividly the political discussions. When I was pre-teen or thereabouts, the coal mine strikes were in full swing and John L. Lewis, the president of the coal miners union and a native Iowan, was the devil himself in my household. He was a terrifying looking soul with his bushy eyebrows and scowling face ... the only image I ever saw of him ... and I was scared to death with everything I had heard of him.

    I lived a lot of my youth in foster homes, always hearing the same political sentiments, and it stayed with me for a long time. I am not proud of it but I will admit that my first vote was cast for Nixon and the Republican slate in 1960. I considered myself Republican. That's the way I had been raised.

    But as I got out on my own and looked around, I began to realize the world looked a whole lot different to me than I had expected or had been led to believe. I was pretty lucky in that I fell into good paying jobs with decent working conditions, thanks to those before me who had paved the way. I had to work hard but it was worth it.

    I had grown up to believe that people who lived poorly were lazy or had "failed". But as a grown man, I saw people who worked other places in my town and worked just as hard as I did, but earning half as much. I started to feel strongly about protecting what I had and helping others to get the same equity. I don't regret the path I chose and am proud of some of the differences I think I have made.

    I do not share your hatred for the wealthy. There are evil people with money and there are some who are broke. I feel a person should be rewarded for their hard work. I value hard work. But I don't accept financial success as a measure of a man's worth or stature. I have known many a man who worked as hard or harder than any millionaire alive. That man deserves to live a comfortable life and to provide a comfortable life for his family. I am not a socialist but in a country where someone can achieve wealth to the point of vulgarity, it is not necessary to accept that others who work hard must live in, or near poverty.

    JS
    Nicely put.

  10. #10
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    luvmylabs, you seem very bitter about something. I am sorry for you.

    JS
    Don't feel sorry for me. I came to this country legally as a child. All I see these days is that everything my parents believed in and taught me has been shot to hell. Illegals being aloweed to stay??? what the F??
    Work hard to sucseed???? NO so much, just claim the race card and the hard worker gets f'd for the minority do nothing.
    MY tax money goes to teaching peopleEnglish?????? WHY????????

    jump the border , squat down and plop out the annchor baby aND i HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT???????SCREW that crap!!!!
    I'm not bitter I want everyome to play by the rules.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

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