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Thread: "Cigaring" Bumpers In Force Fetch. How To Fix ?

  1. #11
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    mine cigared bumpers, liked to chomp on them too. But would carry a bird or even a paper plate with nary a dimple. was not worth the fight for me.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdluck View Post
    ...was not worth the fight for me.
    This one always amazes me. Why is training a fight? Why not just train?

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


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  3. #13
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I don't do any thing about it and it still goes away.
    Pete
    I'm not going to argue with Evan, I understand his point completely. I only had one dog (my first) cigar bumpers, like Pete said after awhile he just figured out it was easier to carry them the normal way, though now that I think about it he was a little loose on birds.

    John

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdluck View Post
    mine cigared bumpers, liked to chomp on them too. But would carry a bird or even a paper plate with nary a dimple. was not worth the fight for me.
    Same here. The cigar "problem" with bumpers eventually worked itself out as well.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    This one always amazes me. Why is training a fight? Why not just train?

    Evan

    Im sometimes amazed by what I read on the internet also.
    Training is not a fight; it is an opportunity to teach the dog skills that it will need in real life hunting, trialing situations
    My experience like others have stated, is that this is a fight that doesn't need to be fought. I have NEVER seen a dog cigar a bird
    .
    I don't use a video camera, but you obviously do Evan, as evidenced by your many you tube videos. So I'll make you a deal you put up a youtube video of a dog cigarring a bird and I'll address & fix that problem for you.

    As to your quote "WHY NOT JUST TRAIN" I would say that is advice you should take to heart.

    As opposed to sitting in front of your computer all day long sub liminally pimping your products on every available dog website known to man, why dont you get out and follow your above quote.?
    Actual hands on training is the only way you can stay abreast of advances in dog training & where you learn what does and doesn't work with dogs.
    You owe it to the people who actually succumb to your promotional assault and buy your products, to stay current and be competent in what you promote
    Step out from behind your computer and step up to the line. Im guessing youll have a good time and get some fresh air
    Call copterdoc up to train with you; Im thinking you could both use some fresh air
    Good Luck & Good Training

  6. #16
    Senior Member BigKahuna13's Avatar
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    I believe that its a fight when you and the dog have a miscommunication about the task at hand and the expected result. We have all at one point or another had them. Its just a matter of figuring out the best way to correct the issue.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    As to your quote "WHY NOT JUST TRAIN" I would say that is advice you should take to heart.
    In various obnoxious ways, that's pretty much all you ever say whether it has any relevance to helping anyone or not...usually not.
    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    As opposed to sitting in front of your computer all day long sub liminally pimping your products on every available dog website known to man, why dont you get out and follow your above quote.?
    Whereas you're perched in the dark recesses of the net eager to offer slime like this. Thanks for the helpful hint.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

  8. #18
    Senior Member Matthew J. Ries's Avatar
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    So back to questions about "cigarring." At what point do you consider it to be an issue? Example: my 10 month old YLF is currently working on wrapping up the intro/teaching to casting before we re-in"force" it and then start T and TT work. She had a harder time than what I would consider normal with "hold" and then we went through FF without any issues. During FTP, she was cigarring almost every bumper. I went back and spent more time and focus on FF and changed to larger bumpers. Cigarring disappeared. Now during the intro to casting, she randomly cigars a bumper, or cigars a bumper then as she approaches me repositions and comes in to finishing position. If she comes back with the bumper improperly placed or fails to finish cleanly (comes in and heels on my left and sits holding the bumper) then I take the bumper from her and command fetch (correction nick if she hesitates).
    Am I to the point I should expect 100% perfect holds? She nails marks and does not have an issue, it rears its head on FTP and yard T work. I think the next step may be to alter the bumpers to allow for only a good center hold (PVC end caps etc).
    Thoughts?
    Matthew Ries, Pharm.D.

    Poole's Matador's Maggie May (04/14/2012 - Present)
    Lacakota Super Magnum (02/20/2002 - 07/2010)

  9. #19
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    Im sometimes amazed by what I read on the internet also.
    Training is not a fight; it is an opportunity to teach the dog skills that it will need in real life hunting, trialing situations
    My experience like others have stated, is that this is a fight that doesn't need to be fought. I have NEVER seen a dog cigar a bird
    .
    I don't use a video camera, but you obviously do Evan, as evidenced by your many you tube videos. So I'll make you a deal you put up a youtube video of a dog cigarring a bird and I'll address & fix that problem for you.

    As to your quote "WHY NOT JUST TRAIN" I would say that is advice you should take to heart.

    As opposed to sitting in front of your computer all day long sub liminally pimping your products on every available dog website known to man, why dont you get out and follow your above quote.?
    Actual hands on training is the only way you can stay abreast of advances in dog training & where you learn what does and doesn't work with dogs.
    You owe it to the people who actually succumb to your promotional assault and buy your products, to stay current and be competent in what you promote
    Step out from behind your computer and step up to the line. Im guessing youll have a good time and get some fresh air
    Call copterdoc up to train with you; Im thinking you could both use some fresh air
    Good Luck & Good Training
    Wow! Overreact much?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    This is the time to work on such things because you're building the standards for your dog's mouth habits. Altered bumpers can be a help because that's part of habit formation; a dumbell-shaped object helps preclude holding poorly. But correcting it shows the dog what you want. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd72kl9lZlc

    Evan
    I use a obedience dumbell during Ff and it usually takes care of the problem down the road,. Others have made suggestions, all good for the present. It is annoying, but, not a big deal at this stage of your training in my opinion.
    You don't want a lot of excess baggage with pressure ,other pressures. If the dog isn't shopping on the pile, maybe throw a bumper or two and gently put the correct hold on the finish with the retrieve? Do this in a different spot before you start pile work. Also, maybe try a correct hold it command and heel the dog around a bit on lead. There is no magic dust to throw on the dog at this stage of the game, be creative. Good luck, keep asking questions and if the hole gets too deep quit digging until you get some advice. If you intend to use the e collar program Ff is the foundation of the entire program and will follow your dog through it's entire. One thing be careful with the tender gals.
    Earl Dillow

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