Hey guys....
An RTF moderator has already asked you guys to knock it off. A couple of you have chosen not to knock it off. I'm here to back the moderator. Knock it off. If you want to argue about the side topic, please take it private.
Regarding cigar hold, here is my own personal thought. Dog training is as much art as it is science. The chemistry between dog and trainer is a unique combination. To me personally, a cigar hold is not attractive to me when my dog is doing it. To me personally, I will spend a little extra time trying to cure the cigar hold. I believe that for some dogs, this can become a gray area. Some dogs seem, to me, to be more "mouth aware" than others. Black and white is whether they are carrying the bumper or dropping it. Gray is if they are not dropping it, and they're carrying it, but they're a little loose and they wind up holding the bumper by the end.
It's personal preference.
If one chooses to "cure" a cigar hold during FF, my opinion is that it takes some finnesse to get it right. If I had a dog with poor mouth awareness, who showed lots of promise on other areas, I may choose to move ahead and focus on the bigger picture. I personally would probably spend some time trying to create better mouth awareness first, and try to cure the hold that to me, is not attractive, before I chose to move ahead.
I do agree with Pete, Marc and others that in the end, it probably is not that big a deal and probably does work itself out in many cases.
Here's a trick I learned from our own /paul - Gundog. It's a good one. I call it "hammer fetch". Hammer fetch is the idea of using a mini-sledge hammer or other object that is highly unbalanced. Merely grabbing the 12 inch handle at the 6 inch point does not lead to a good hold. I have found it to help create mouth awareness without my having to get overly involved. I can keep the session black and white, as the goal is to carry and not drop. IF the dog has loose mouth habits and tries to bobble the object, it is likely to fall. Then we can work on correcting the drop and getting a more solid hold.
Again guys, knock off the bickering please. When a moderator asks for help, I ask that you pitch in. Don't disrespect her, and don't challenge her.
Thanks, Chris