The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 22

Thread: interesting (?) observation about ichthyosis affected Goldens

  1. #11
    Senior Member Sue Kiefer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Clintonville,Wi
    Posts
    1,840

    Default

    Tony,
    I fed my effected omega 3 fish oils and they had good diets.It made me feel good , but it didn't really hold down the flakes.
    I posted on another threads on this subject what I purchased and used topically. I hated shampooing all the time so I used the topical stuff. it made them smell great and it seemed to work because from what I understand this flakiness is an outer layer dermis ? The more you brush and fuss with the coat the more you aggrevated the coat.
    Like I said before.........I think that effected dogs have different degrees of flakiness.
    Sue
    Never confuse activity with success.

    "Ummmmmmm Isn't a word." Judge Judy

  2. #12
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    SW of Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    guess my theory had lots of holes in it! Oh well. Just a thought.
    In any case, I think it's good to open up discussions about ichthyosis.

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP XFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  3. #13
    Senior Member tzappia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Massena, New York
    Posts
    341

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sue Kiefer View Post
    Tony,
    I fed my effected omega 3 fish oils and they had good diets.It made me feel good , but it didn't really hold down the flakes.
    I posted on another threads on this subject what I purchased and used topically. I hated shampooing all the time so I used the topical stuff. it made them smell great and it seemed to work because from what I understand this flakiness is an outer layer dermis ? The more you brush and fuss with the coat the more you aggrevated the coat.
    Like I said before.........I think that effected dogs have different degrees of flakiness.
    Sue
    Hi Sue, I've read recent scientific reports with respect to fish oils. Not as effective as the canine public would believe. I do not use fish oils.
    Tony C. Zappia
    www.tonyzappia.com
    FTCH Adirondac Tea for Two WC, ** (Tea), 2009 GRCA National Specialty Derby win, Open Win
    (Fireside) Field of Emeralds (Emme)
    Heads Up Winter Storm Warning (Ice)

  4. #14
    Senior Member Judy Chute's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Falmouth, Maine
    Posts
    2,997

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
    guess my theory had lots of holes in it! Oh well. Just a thought.
    In any case, I think it's good to open up discussions about ichthyosis.
    It is a good question, especially since you had experience with issues that seemed might go along with ichthyosis.

    There are, more than likely, not enough responses to this thread to really make a decision..some may not have any other issues...but is there a chance that some dogs do??

    Barb, might you direct your question to the research of ichthyosis? ..GRCA and any other resource that recognized the issue, did the science etc.

    Our Ranger is clear, but Sebec is a carrier and his sire Steeple Hill Ranger is affected. Would be interesting to know if he (Steeple Hill Ranger) had any of the isses that you describe that your older guy had.

    Maybe that was never researched beyond the initial issue..flaking.

    Good thread.

    Judy
    Choctaw's Piscataquis Sebec UD MH CGC WCX ***
    UCDX HR SR Sand Dancer's XX MTB Ranger UDT, MH, WCX **
    HR SR Scarlett's Andi O'Malley CD SH OA NAJ CGC (OAJ-2 Placements) 9/16/1995-3/31/2011

  5. #15
    Senior Member weebegoldens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    184

    Default

    Our Pete(Bart x Snap) is affected. No stomach issues either.
    Megan
    Megan(Weebegoldens)

  6. #16
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    SW of Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    I will poke around and see if someone is interested in pursuing the idea. Maybe a vet student looking for a study to do?
    It would be hard because so many dogs seem to be affected but asymptomatic.

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP XFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  7. #17
    Senior Member Sue Kiefer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Clintonville,Wi
    Posts
    1,840

    Default

    I think that they are symptomatic. (Different degrees of flakiness) Maybe not as much as some I have seen or heard about.
    My Ginger had a greasy type coat. She often smelled like a dirty dishcloth left for days . I wonder if that was a type of icth.?
    Talking is good.
    Sue
    Never confuse activity with success.

    "Ummmmmmm Isn't a word." Judge Judy

  8. #18
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    SW of Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    I think you're right, Sue, they are symptomatic to some degree but in some it's so minor, and clears up as they mature, so it's never really diagnosed.
    My boy that I lost last year I believe was a classic case.
    As a young puppy, he had thin fur on his belly, and lots of flaky skin. His belly skin was very dark. By the time he was about 9 or 10 months old, though, he seemed to have outgrown whatever it was.
    Then when he was about 2-ish, he developed very greasy skin, and constant flaking. Sometimes he would get secondary staph infections. The vet diagnosed it as a type of sebohhrea (sp?), secondary to allergies. We tried various allergy prescriptions, none made any difference. Put him on prescription food, again no difference. Were finally able to manage it pretty well with baths twice a week, one with chlor-hexiderm shampoo and the other with a coal-tar (sulphur?) preparation which stunk to high heaven.
    After about a year of that, it seemed to clear up and we didn't see any issues in him at all until he was about 8. I'll leave out the long story of his being diagnosed with asymptomatic IBD, but he ended up having his spleen removed at age 8 and then the greasy skin and flakiness came back with a vengance.
    He had it until he died at age 14 (unrelated causes).
    So looking back, I'm sure that was ichthyosis. When he would be groomed, it looked like snow under him on the table.

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP XFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  9. #19
    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    SW of Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,366

    Default

    I emailed the GRCA health foundation, and asked about a link between ichthyosis and stomach issues. Here is the reply I got from Ann Hubbs, GRCA Health and Genetics committee (posted here with permission):

    "That is a very interesting hypothesis indeed. The genetic cause of ichthyosis in Golden Retrievers was first described at the Canine and Feline Genomics Conference in 2010 and was published last year (PubMed link is at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22246504 ) . The same genetic mutation that causes ichthyosis in Golden Retrievers also causes a form of ichthyosis in people. Golden Retriever ichthyosis is extremely common in French Golden Retrievers (roughly a third are affected) and when I attended the 2010 conference, there was no mention of other systems being affected. I tried to find my copy of the paper this morning and, of course, could not – but I don’t believe that effects on the GI system have been described. On the other hand, the gene that is mutated in Golden Retriever ichthyosis plays a role in the lipid barrier of the skin – so it is not impossible that it could play a role in GI tract barriers. Now that the gene has been identified, such studies would be possible. Therefore, the short answer is that there is no data that we know about that indicates that anything other than skin is affected, but no studies have been conducted (“the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”).

    However, in the email traffic that I receive from the H&G, the most common manifestation that breeders see is dandruff in puppies that becomes almost unnoticeable as they mature, with a smaller group much more severely affected. Of the 3926 currently in our online Health Survey http://www.offa.org/surveys/survey_golden.html , only 7 were reported as being diagnosed with ichthyosis. I strongly suspect that many cases of ichthyosis in Golden Retrievers are misdiagnosed as, or complicated by, other conditions – it is easy to see how changes in the lipid barrier of the skin could increase allergies and seborrhea and clinically would probably not be identified as two conditions (i.e. ichthyosis and atopic dermatitis). My impression is that when American Golden Retrievers are tested, there are a lot more cases and carriers than we thought but less than in France."

    Barb Gibson
    with
    CH Rosewood Little Giant UDX VER RA MHU SH MXP MJP XFP T2BP DJ VCX WCX CCA CGC FFX-OG
    also UCH HR UUD UJJ URO1 UHIT
    (golden retriever) born 3-10-07
    a.k.a. "Tito", "The Tito Monster"
    www.GoTeamTito.com

  10. #20
    Senior Member mostlygold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,031

    Default

    Ren who is a littermate to Tonys Tea has ich, but it was very mild even as a puppy and she seems to have out grown it. However, she does have sensitivity to certain foods and had ear infections and itchy skin until she was put on venison diet.
    Looking back the flaky skin stopped about the time she went on venison. She will have Gi issues, ESP diarrhea if she eats corn.

    The omega 3 fish oils I give are not for skin. The omega 3 are proven anti inflammatories and are given to my dogs to help protect their joints. They get omega 3 and Dasuqin daily from the day they come to live with me.

    Dawn
    mostlygold
    Terrill's Mr Butch CDX TT; Terrill's Adalay CD TD; Goldtraks Once 'n Luv with Amy CD MH WCX; Goldtraks Opening Day; Highlands Split Image MH WCX **; Karousel's Goldtrak Maguire JH WCX; Highlands On A Dare CD MH WCX **; MHR HRCH Adirondac Bustd at the Bordr UD MH AXP AJP WCX CCA VCX CL3 PKII PDI; Mostlygold's On the Mark CL3 PJII PKI; HR WR Adirondac Mountain Renegade CDX MH WCX CCA VC

    We don't stop playing because we've grown old, we grow old because we've stopped playing.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •