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USA vs World

12K views 70 replies 29 participants last post by  Renee P. 
#1 ·
I would like to see the best of the best. USA vs World. If this could get pulled off I bet there would be sponsors. It would be the equivalent to the Ryder Cup. It seems the USA is always being targeted to be defeated. OK any of you from across the pond willing?
 
#3 ·
heck make it an all retriever competition- have it every 4 years like the world cup for soccer in a different country every time - I guess it would depend on how many countries would be willing to participate.
 
#8 ·
Thats a great idea. It would be cool if we could get a panel to form that consisted of a few members from each country to agree on a "standardized rulset" so that there was no advantage other than the "home court advantage"

The World Cup in soccer, although played in different countries every four years, is played with the same rules. That would eliminate the whole "The English Dog won in England because we had to play by their rules" or the "American dog won in USA because we played by USA rules". I guess the tough part would be getting enough people from each country to makeup a panel, and the toughER part would be to get agreement on rules.

...just a thought....I am not familiar with the rules in other countries, but am just assuming things may be different. Please forgive my ignorance.
 
#6 ·
Maybe we should host an American style FT here and invite a team from England to compete? ;)
 
#43 ·
No need to go overseas and incur all the expense, just run the HRC Grand!

Lonnie Spann
 
#13 ·
that is a pretty neat write up have they done it since?
 
#15 · (Edited)
that is a pretty neat write up have they done it since?
Unfortunately not; the event continues but without N American participation. At the time there was a good discussion in RTF but I can't find it now. It was a long time ago and the forum has had several make-overs since then, so it's probably in the dust bin of history. Jeff Boston (Chatson Gundogs) saw it all and reported back to RTF, and also posted a bit in another forum HERE

I should stress that it wasn't a Field Trial, but what we call a Working Test; no shot birds at all, just dummy work.

Frankly I don't think a Ryder Cup type of contest based on Field Trials will fly, the logistics and differences in procedures are too great. A format something like a US Hunt Test or UK Working Test similar to Sherborne Castle would be all right, but would need massive sponsorship to make the travelling costs worth while.

Eug
 
#16 ·
Col Blimp is spot on. We were fortunate enough to watch the 2004 event and spend time w/ team USA. FTs or HTs in Europe are a different game from what we do in the USA. Not better or worse, just different. So a "Ryder Cup" style competion would be unworkable. Rather it would be my rules v your rules depending on the venue.
Having said that our few days at the event are etched in memory as some very special "dog days." If the sponsorships could be found to cover the high costs for the competing teams it would be fun to have an event rotating across "the pond" but some baseline rules that are compatible across venues would have to be agreed upon.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Okay I've got it take the working test from over there and the 4 x 4 team medley from over here and combine them to make a couple day event, that way it would be be dummy work from both sides of the pond, and the rules are already made the sponsorships are already in place with the SRS but I am not sure about over there but I am sure that there are large companies that sponsor dog events over there that would be willing to participate.

Talk about an event, people from Europe would have to get their dogs to our type of competition and North American dogs would have to be able to there competitions. It would be a pretty even playing field I think and no one could argue about rules.


Just a thought
 
#20 ·
I definitely want to see this conversation continue into something actually happening. Another question is, how do you get this to lead to something actually credited? Will kennel clubs get together to agree on a prefix for the winner? The UK has "Int. FTCH"... I wonder what would work for giving credit to the dogs who placed/won?
 
#27 ·
Our UK Kennel Club do not give any credence/formal awards for 'working tests' which is what these events (a la the Home International at CLA Game Fair and the Skinners World Cup - formerly Sherbourne ) are categorised as. As they are only run on dummies, out of season. None of our working tests actually give the dogs any titles, even at Open level here.

Also, INT. FT. CH is a title used for dogs, throughout Europe, that have won trials/been made up to FTCH in more than one country. It is not just related to UK, I think. So, it could be Italy and Belgium? I might be wrong on that though?
 
#21 ·
The joint CanAm team was a North American effort to go to Britain and play by IGL rules using N.American trained dogs, a very courageous endeavour indeed. Curious that no European individual or group has felt the same spirit of adventure compel them to venture over here in Field Trials on either side of the 49th?

The rules are very different on both sides of the Atlantic, thus far only one side has shown nerve enough to brave the peculiarities of the others game. Eug, Polmaise, when are you coming?

It seems an almost impossible task to create a homogenized set of rules that could be readily agreed upon, so baring a major sponsor stepping up to create an independent venue with an approximation of a pan Atlantic set of rules, questions of supremacy of one training regimen or another will remain to be dealt with by the privateer with the greatest confidence.

As we used to say in a game at school.... Red rover, red rover, let xxxxx come over
and as the SAS would say.....who dares wins
 
#28 ·
For the Skinners World Cup Event (which was the former event your team came to at Sherbourne), this test is judged by four International judges, invited from the competing countries. It is judged on UK KC/FCI (European rules).

I think the main stumbling block for any of the UK folk to come over to USA and compete is the small matter of rabies! I think we would be able to get our dogs out of this country and come over, but bringing them home with us would be a whole new matter! Our quarantine rules are fairly strict, and I think it is still 6 months quarantine coming in from a rabies country? I guess we could leave the dogs behind and sell them to the highest bidder?!!!!.........
 
#23 · (Edited)
Just on a side note: I'd find it relatively easy to train for US type Field Trials, all I need by way of extra equipment is a big field, a big waggly pond, and an e-collar.

For folks in North American to train for UK Field Trials on driven shoots and walked up days in variable cover and terrain wouldn't be nearly so easy. Not I think impossible, but very hard and pretty expensive. If I want to take a dog along to a driven shoot and let him watch 350 birds shot all round him, I just drive two miles and it costs me nothing. Same with a walk up day where there will be Spaniels working in front of us. A tough call in the US and Canada.

However sponsorship is the big deal breaker IMO; a team of four competitors, a chef d'equipe and a bag man, eight dogs, dog passports and appropriate shots, flights, accommodation and ground travel isn't a cheap proposition, way beyond that of most individuals.

Mr Voight competed at Sherborne Castle, if he sees this thread it would be nice to have his observations.

Eug
 
#25 ·
Just on a side note: I'd find it relatively easy to train for US type Field Trials, all I need by way of extra equipment is a big field, a big waggly pond, and an e-collar. For folks in North American to train for UK Field Trials on driven shoots and walked up days in variable cover and terrain wouldn't be nearly so easy. Not I think impossible, but very hard and pretty expensive. If I want to take a dog along to a driven shoot and let him watch 350 birds shot all round him, I just drive two miles and it costs me nothing. Same with a walk up day where there will be Spaniels working in front of us. A tough call in the US and Canada.

However sponsorship is the big deal breaker IMO; a team of four competitors, a chef d'equipe and a bag man, eight dogs, dog passports and appropriate shots, flights, accommodation and ground travel isn't a cheap proposition, way beyond that of most individuals.

Mr Voight competed at Sherborne Castle, if he sees this thread it would be nice to have his observations.

Eug
Yes sir, that's all you need... ;)
 
#30 · (Edited)
GD,

Great pics!. Does Ms Cleveland play in a band? She appears to be wearing a trumpet round her neck.;)

Duckquilizer posted So by way of equipment or facilities what else is there? Launchers? Tick. E-collar sequential programs? Tick. Assistants and bird boys,? Tick.
Eug
It helps to have a dog that's even remotely talented enough to do the work. Natural talent is the easiest part. The trained abilities will be were you find the learning curve the greatest and that will have little to do with pup... :D You will better served by having access to 8-10 big fields and all the technical water/ponds you can find. There never seems to be enough. The bugle is required to reach the dog that looks like a speck on your eye specktacle...
 
#29 ·
I may be wrong but SRS titles dont show on AKC pedigrees either I am not sure I have never looked at UKC pedigree to know if they do or not.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I may be wrong but SRS titles dont show on AKC pedigrees either I am not sure I have never looked at UKC pedigree to know if they do or not.
****************************************
AKC does not recognize SRS, nor UKC. Also, non AKC titles are not supposed to be printed in the premium.
 
#33 ·
Thanks Breck, I knew the rules had changed regarding EU, and the rabies blood test time had been shortened, but I hadn't realised that this could be applied to non-EU as well. If this is the case, then that's quite interesting. Although I guess still the cost of transporting the dogs across the Atlantic would be considerable for a 'mere working test'! LOL

Certainly opens things up a little though perhaps...
 
#34 ·
.
The UK/US combined venue whatever it might be won't happen anytime soon.
If you want to have fun with your dogs in the US, just register dog with AKC, find a "friend" with a NetJets account, do some dog work, beg a spot on his jet, fly on over and run 2 or 3 field trials.
 
#37 · (Edited)
The coverage report was a very good read. Question what is "hunting in thick bracken" ? With all the pheasant hunting I do in the west I find it hard to believe that we do not have something as thick and unassailable very akin to a "Bracken" in the U.S. ? I know we have nettle-weed, lovely stuff covers most of the fields in SoCal;). Seems like an SRS team would be better suited for this type of test, combo of do it all dogs. It's great that the FT dogs went over and did well, might've proved something. Still it'd be nice to have the other types of American HT retrievers represented, and it'd probably be pretty nice to have a GRHRCH type dog as a reserve player in a couple of series of those tests. ;)
 
#38 ·
It's great that the FT dogs went over and did well, might've proved something. Still it'd be nice to have the other types of American HT retrievers represented, and it'd probably be pretty nice to have a GRHRCH type dog as a reserve player in a couple of series of those tests. ;)
At least one of the dogs was a HT dog, Jack. He was a Master National Hall of Fame dog if I remember right. Also the dogs and handlers were picked that were calm and able to handle what they were going up against. So these weren't necessarily the firebreathing creepers, Brad with Maggie and Connie with Eli were the ones I remembered besides Jack.
 
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