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Thread: shopping the pile

  1. #11
    Senior Member Jay-Bird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    I start my pile work with 3 bumpers in what i call a Mini-pile specifically to clean up issues like shopping before setting a full pile. Not a bad idea to step back to that for this purpose.

    Evan
    Yup..............

  2. #12
    Senior Member Jay-Bird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grnhd View Post
    I'm no expert either but why would "fetch" with a nick not work if the dog is shopping the pile and has been though FF and CC?


    And again, yup..

  3. #13
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grnhd View Post
    I'm no expert either but why would "fetch" with a nick not work if the dog is shopping the pile and has been though FF and CC?
    It should "work". But it may not be the most appropriate thing to do while you're training this skill, especially in the beginning. The result you're after is not only a dog that will do the work, but that will want to do the work. Start with measures that make shopping less likely, like using only 3 well separated bumpers, and give the dog good habits. As that happens over time, elevate the standard by raising the requirements. More bumpers at more distance (gradually), and make corrections fundamental.

    If a dog is shopping he's not coming. When he's sent to the pile it's his job to fetch and recall quickly and cleanly. That's what you spent those initial training days teaching him to do. Now you need to begin insisting on it. I prefer the results I've gotten from insisting on "Here". If he drops a bumper, or tries to come back without one, I take him immediately to the pile and force him on one. Then we begin again until the entire dynamic of FTP is running smoothly. Then we begin again to back away from the pile in small increments.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


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  4. #14
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    ...If a dog is shopping he's not coming. When he's sent to the pile it's his job to fetch and recall quickly and cleanly. That's what you spent those initial training days teaching him to do. Now you need to begin insisting on it. I prefer the results I've gotten from insisting on "Here". If he drops a bumper, or tries to come back without one, I take him immediately to the pile and force him on one. ......Evan
    a Ayup, to this.
    just like way back when the dog was shown how to hold. and then the buck/bumper was tapped to see if it would fall out. and when it did a couple, hold firmed up. pulling him off of the pile quick is just like tapping the bumper in hold. gets the dog thinking "I am gonna grab one quick and beat that jughead on the tug"! not that your dog would ever call you jughead
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  5. #15
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    Who cares? The dog went where sent, picks up a bumper, brings it back and delivers properly. What else do you want?
    I have had a few shoppers and I never let it bother me. When it comes to test time or hunting, it won't be an issue.
    It is a minor avoidance/ confusion issue that goes away in time when the dog becomes more familiar and comfortable with the drill.
    Continue on with your progression in whatever program you are using.
    MP
    The pain of regret is much worse than the pain of hard work.

  6. #16
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    I agree with Evan - its's a recall issue - and I also agree with Mike Perry!....

    I'd live with the swap if I was achieving my objective of dog powering out (or whatever you are doing this drill/exercise for), but I would note it for later, and work on it separately. ie. set up an exercise that specifically deals with 'swapping' (or shopping). For me, I do this with short marks that are just thrown right next to each other.

  7. #17
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    A "pile of bumpers" is not a pile.

    Here's a "mini"-ipile and Gunny ready to "work" a regular pile.

    No shopping afterwards regards, Jim

    "mini"-pile


    "regular" pile
    Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
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  8. #18
    Senior Member jd6400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Perry View Post
    Who cares? The dog went where sent, picks up a bumper, brings it back and delivers properly. What else do you want?
    I have had a few shoppers and I never let it bother me. When it comes to test time or hunting, it won't be an issue.
    It is a minor avoidance/ confusion issue that goes away in time when the dog becomes more familiar and comfortable with the drill.
    Continue on with your progression in whatever program you are using.
    MP
    THIS!!!!! I have found correcting one small problem usually leads to a bigger one.Plus the fact I`m not a nagger!!!! Jim

  9. #19
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwickLabs View Post
    A "pile of bumpers" is not a pile.

    Here's a "mini"-ipile and Gunny ready to "work" a regular pile.

    No shopping afterwards regards, Jim
    On the money as usual, Jim!
    Quote Originally Posted by kennel maiden View Post
    I agree with Evan - its's a recall issue - and I also agree with Mike Perry!....
    I've watched sessions in which the trainer opted to ignore the shopping. Sessions usually took at least twice as much time, and literally trained the dog to shop. Why would you do that when de-shopping takes so little time and effort?

    Does it have long term effects? Sometimes yes/sometimes no. I tend to err on the side of "I can control being smart better than I can control being lucky", and simply train the dog. It's easy and much more fun to live with.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
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  10. #20
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    I just like to see my pups pick up the first bumper they encounter and return. Anything else conveys a sloppy or indecisive attitude. By teaching my pups how to work a pile, I don't have to deal with it later on and/or wait for it "to go away". Everyone has choices.
    Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
    MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
    HR Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
    Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
    HR Kwick Draw McGraw SH (June, 2007 - May, 2014)

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