shopping the pile

[Criquetpas]

You 'nick' away Jd!!! There's no nicking going on here!....

Force Fetch, the entire program has little or nothing to do with dropping birds, switching birds, it is the foundation of the electric collar program . It is about conditioning the dog to pressure, running under pressure and getting out of pressure.
It is the basis for most e collar training. Many or so called washout dogs fail this portion of the program and later as field trial dogs are washed out. Is it the only program, no, but for many it is the easiest to follow .

[steve schreiner]

My dog can handle a simple diversion so far. What's hard is having a pile of 5 to 9 bumpers in a small circle of space. Which one do you want, Ma?

Jennifer , be care full with a dog that is going to do scent discrimination on articles when doing pile drills ....The quick pickup of the first on you come to will cause some fall out when they have to hunt for the correct one ...just a word of advice ...looking farther down the road.....

[Criquetpas]

Jennifer , be care full with a dog that is going to do scent discrimination on articles when doing pile drills ....The quick pickup of the first on you come to will cause some fall out when they have to hunt for the correct one ...just a word of advice ...looking farther down the road.....

Good advice my trial dogs, both CDX Goldens years ago were 195 plus novice and open. Got to utility never could teach the articles, tryed every thing, they were pile work dogs, grabbed the first article. One dog AFC Wildfire if Riverview CDX , Sparky, in many Golden pedigrees failed the utility work, we trained together Lew Daniels and myself
Never could get it down . We changed some of commands like over to jump for the broad jump, but, nothing worked for the articles.

[Jennifer Henion]

Jennifer , be care full with a dog that is going to do scent discrimination on articles when doing pile drills ....The quick pickup of the first on you come to will cause some fall out when they have to hunt for the correct one ...just a word of advice ...looking farther down the road.....

Thanks for the thought, Steve. We don't do Obedience, however. Just Hunt Tests and hopefully Field Trials. Two Senior tests and two Derbies coming up in April.

[hotel4dogs]

We do obedience and field.
Didn't have an issue. Two different commands. Two completely different venues.
"Find it" for articles. "Fetch it up" for bumpers.
Earl, I'd be curious what method you used for teaching articles, and especially if it was done indoors.

[Criquetpas]

We do obedience and field.
Didn't have an issue. Two different commands. Two completely different venues.
"Find it" for articles. "Fetch it up" for bumpers.
Earl, I'd be curious what method you used for teaching articles, and especially if it was done indoors.

We tied articles down, used different types toothbrushes, etc, tried in the dark, had advice from some top obedience people used different commands. Nona Bauer featured one of the dogs in her Golden Retriever book Marshlands Shotzy CDX QAA U.S. And Canada what a mouthful haven't written that in a long, long time. I entered Shotzy in four shows
Everyone wanted to know who the mask man was his obedience career lasted less then 9 months. He did everything perfect, directed retrieve, gloves, silent commands. Now the articles he picked the first one with the speed of sound.
Judge wanted to know if he always worked that fast! All four shows he DQ on the articles, end of his utility career.
I haven't done AKC obedience since these black dogs just don't have the showmanship. Connie Drobac even tried to help me, but, to no avail. That pile work did me in.

[Criquetpas]

Barb, I am sorry it was Betty Drobac, Connie Cleveland's mother I think. It was a long time ago, 1983 or1984. Also forgot some of his stuff old habits die he was

Marshland's Shotzy MH CDX Qual all age ( couldn't find stars) US and Canada Dog World award in obedience WCX ( he had a all breed amateur all age win plus points in field trials and a lotta JAMs) ran him until 10 years just couldn't finish his AFC
I don't know what those suffixes are now?

[rbr]

And like I said here nick here has worked for me!

Like using the word "no" ,around the pile is not where I would be nikking.

[rbr]

Yes, definitely in a field trial where there will be several birds lying on the ground together after a drive, sometimes almost on top of each other. In a working test there may be a few dummies put in one area for a 'picking up' exercise, yes, but these will not be right on top of each other.

I take it you are speaking of a drive in the UK as we don't have that sort of test in American Field Trials.

My basic point however is a youngster shopping a pile in a pressure drill is realy not the same as the dog leaving the AOF after an established hunt on a marking set up,
which in most of our minds is the definition of a switch.

Bert

[Breck]

Kennel maiden...
???

So over there, if dog picks up a bird and rather than return directly to you she drops it and picks up another, exactly what will you do to remedy the matter?.
.
In our trials we have no piles of birds in close proximity to one another. However on our separate and distinct marks the birds may be near enough to one another, say 50 yards, for dog to be tempted to "switch" to another while returning. Or, while hunting the fall area of one mark, before finding bird, dog may leave area and high tail it over to a different bird, again a Switch.
In "pile work" training there is a pile of bumpers, not birds, which is where we have "shopping" issues. Sometimes we'll run a blind with several dogs and set out enough birds for all of them.
When we want to end shopping "NO Here" Toot, toot, toot may be enough. It it becomes more irritating collar pressure may be added. No Here, nick or burn. However in the vicinity of guns and birds use of collar needs to be measured with a bit of caution.