Labs today vs labs of yesteryear/

[jd6400]

The thread about 65 national and Cotton brought out some of the older guys that have seen a few of the labs and labs today.My question to them is.
Are the labs today as good as the labs we had back in 60`s and 70`s?Or have training methods gotten so much better that we are getting more out of a lesser animal?

Now when I say "as good" I`m talking of marking ability,trainability, both which I feel are genetic trait.Along with willingness to "go thru a brick wall"mentality to get a bird in any condition.
Would love to hear from you guys that field trial along with you gundog guys like myself that have been around doin this for 35 + yrs.

I will give my thoughts also. Hope all can stay civil!!!! Mr. Connor would really love to hear from you.This should be interesting for the younger crowd also.

I will also give my dads thoughts about this in his years after getting out of the game. Jim

[John Lash]

I think the dogs are at least as good as they were, or better percentage wise.

I think the training is much better. The use of the collar is better understood by more people. I think that's the biggest difference.

I think the expectations are higher today. The dogs of yesterday weren't asked to do what the dogs of today are. With today's training methods I'm sure they could have.

We go to fields we used to be able to do 2 or 3 setups in and they have gotten too small to do 1 setup. We train at Keiths a lot as you know. Run marks from one end of the property to the other. Go to a trial and the marks are still longer...

[jd6400]

The expectations are greater,because training has gotten better,hence the need for tougher tests to get rid of enough dogs to finish the wknd? Right?

[John Lash]

Yes, that's my opinion. If most of the dogs can do the test it has to be made more difficult.

As it's made more difficult, trainers learn how to teach the dogs to do those. Now the tests have to be made harder, etc., etc.

[jd6400]

My thoughts too...Wheres Mr. Fallon?

[jd6400]

Heres a few things I`ve noticed about what has been going on in the last 30 yrs.

An influx of cruciate ligament tears.

Cancer is more prevalent

Markin ability is better

Trainability is better

Ability to get in water has greatly diminished! (this has me concerned)

now realize this is a generalized statement and I don`t get a ton of super well bred FT bred dogs through here to work with also.

[Northernstorm]

Yes, that's my opinion. If most of the dogs can do the test it has to be made more difficult.

As it's made more difficult, trainers learn how to teach the dogs to do those. Now the tests have to be made harder, etc., etc.

And this is what needs to be done in Hunt Tests as well,

[jd6400]

And this is what needs to be done in Hunt Tests as well,

WHy? Thats why we have Field Trials? correct!

[Northernstorm]

WHy? Thats why we have Field Trials? correct!

Think about the BREED JR

[John Lash]

Jim I agree with some of that, but not the getting in the water part. Some dogs have a deficit in training in that they're too honest around the water. Taking too much water, staying in. You need to come over to Keith's sometime. I think it's part super bred FT dogs and part, getting in the water is a way of life from a pup on. Part of "better training." It used to be "get in the water and stay in the water." Now it's get in the water, get out then get back in, or don't get back in." As trials evolve staying in the water is no longer always what you want to do.

Cruciates and cancer, yeah...Few seem to be breeding for longevity in our dogs, not that it's easy to do. One could argue that cruciate problems come from simply covering more miles these days than yesteryear. Going hard and stopping hard.

Northernstorm, I agree with you whole heartedly, although most won't. Trying to be better benefits everyone. I've always had a problem with, "my dog got his MH with all barely acceptables, yours got a MH with all excellents." Hunt tests were based on the premise of doing good enough. If the dogs 50 years from now are just good enough what is gained? A MH with a "D" average is a MH, one with an "A" average is a MH. Of course the same could be said about many things in life.

There is always the argument that if you don't agree with HT you can go run FT. Sounds like maybe you should come over to Keith's too. He's between Springboro and Conneautville.