FT Goldens then and now =Barty?

[rmilner]

I had the honor and the pleasure of judging June Atkinson's Holway Corbiere in the Shooting Times Cold Game Test at Sandringham in the early 80s in the UK. He won first place and was an amazing dog. June, who is now deceased was one of the best dog trainers I have ever known. I had the good fortune to be able to go to training sessions with June several times over the years during visits to England and l learned a good bit from it. Her son Robert is still running Holway kennel. Considering the impact that Holway Barty had on the field-bred Goldens, one might look back to his source for potential sires.

Here is a good article on June by Graham Cox, who was one of the four judges for the 2012 IGL Retriever championship. Graham also is a great cheerleader for Goldens, and has done quite well in field trials with them.

http://www.holwaygoldens.com/holway-...june-atkinson/

Here is a good article by Graham Cox on the history of Goldens from UK pesrpective:

http://www.holwaygoldens.com/gundogs/

[Jennifer Henion]

I had the honor and the pleasure of judging June Atkinson's Holway Corbiere in the Shooting Times Cold Game Test at Sandringham in the early 80s in the UK. He won first place and was an amazing dog. June, who is now deceased was one of the best dog trainers I have ever known. I had the good fortune to be able to go to training sessions with June several times over the years during visits to England and l learned a good bit from it. Her son Robert is still running Holway kennel. Considering the impact that Holway Barty had on the field-bred Goldens, one might look back to his source for potential sires.

Here is a good article on June by Graham Cox, who was one of the four judges for the 2012 IGL Retriever championship. Graham also is a great cheerleader for Goldens, and has done quite well in field trials with them.

http://www.holwaygoldens.com/holway-...june-atkinson/

Here is a good article by Graham Cox on the history of Goldens from UK pesrpective:

http://www.holwaygoldens.com/gundogs/

June Atkinson is one person with whom I would have loved to train. Heck, I would have gladly served as a farm slave for her, if I could hang out with her and those dogs.

[Jennifer Henion]

Miss Jen,do you know who that photo is? Jim

No, but I'd like to. I first guessed it was Torch Flinn, as I have seen other photos of her (then I saw the caption "Torch"), but I didn't know the dog or circumstance. What is the story behind that, Jd?

[jd6400]

Yea it is Torchy,the pic was from 70`s and really don`t know what dog ,Kinda thought someone might Jim

[jd6400]

Heres another Jen,lets see if anyone around recognizes this. Jim001.jpg

[Glenda Brown]

In the U.S., we have had Rocky, Thistle and Cain have titles in three venues---no OTCH in those days, but it is my understanding that a UD in Canada gives the dog an OTCH title. Thistle also had a TD title.

Have had CH-AFC Lorelei's Golden Rockbottom UD; CH AFC Riverview's Chickasaw Thistle UD TD; Dual CH Ronakers Novato Cain CD; and Hondo-- CH AFC Honor's Dorado of Spindrift who did not have any obedience titles. Hondo is going to be featured in the Mar/Apr issue of the GRNs.

Pat Sadler would probably be able to recognize the Golden with Torch---possibly Elmer or Tuppee?

Pat Quinn just finished organizing a list of all the Golden conformation Champions who have their MH titles which I just downloaded. It continues to grow from the original one I have so that is a huge plus.

Glenda

[Jennifer Henion]

Heres another Jen,lets see if anyone around recognizes this. Jim001.jpg

What a neat photo, Jim!! Everyone looks VERY happy! Of course, I don't know who it is, but can't wait to find out the story! Can you tell I'm a former newspaper reporter?

[jd6400]

Haaa!You seem very much into the breed and I love to see that!!Kinda why I`m doin this.I`m gonna hold off on the answer but a little hint,I can`t believe there are no canadians that don`t recognize this....... Jim

[Sue Kiefer]

I lived down the street from Colstad before he moved to Irma.
I 'll not tell the yr.!
Ethel Weber also had the best chocolate-chip cookies too which she brought to trials. Remember?
Mary H. also had Goldens at one time.
Where's Caroline? She's a lurker.
Sue

[Gerry Clinchy]

My last Golden Litter was bred in 1980 AFC Wildfire of Riverview CDX to my Marshlands Lucky Trick OD ( a Barty bitch) I kept one of the pups trough a divorce and started to train him at 3 1/2 years old pointed QAA he lived until he was 16. I don't have a dog in this fight, but told some folks back then Barty was going to be bred into many generations and in the future it would be hard to find a non Barty in a field pedigree.

I told the folks back then, when I went black, that I would find the most prominent field dogs and breed them to the most prominent obedience, rather then try to make another dual champion. I bred that bitch to a top Golden Show dog at the time and the pups were just about useless as far as field ability goes, pretty dogs, prepotent sires, but not even a good nose. Trixie was out of Barty and a Chief Sands bitch, but, the conformation dogs were so prepotent, produce themselves, the field wasn't even evident. Not much of a sampling I guess, but, an observation and followed that breeding to the second generation and it did not change.
They might be on to something M. Robinson!

I think that many have tried doing this, but when the first generation is disappointing, give it up.

My first pup purchased specifically for field work was a Ki son ex a bitch who was a daughter of CH Seneca's Riparian Chief, WC. But ... the sire of Rip was CH Betaberk's Rockcrest Apache*** whom many of the field people believed might have titled if the owner (the late Mo Saffell) had been more adept at handling skills. So, while it appeared to be the same premise of field dog X show dog, there was more to it than what appeared on the surface. While I was not up to getting the best out of my pup (who was a very good marker), one of his littermates became a Can FC & US *** (I believe he became *** when he was just around 2 yrs old. http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=16272

IF (and that is a VERY BIG "if") there were ever to be another Golden Dual CH in the US, I think it might come from careful selection of show dogs who also show innate field capability (perhaps with a few solid field dogs in the background) & a mate that also had solid field genes. There could be a big "drought" between the beginning and the end of the quest ... in the end, it might be the linebreeding value that could make it come to pass. It would also require, perhaps, several people on the same quest in order to provide the alternative matings along the way ... ultimately concentrating enough of the field aptitude genes to carry heavier weight into the final product.

And if we look into Push's pedigree we see some show genes buried back there on the dam side, with some field genes that combined in just the right way to transmit the field ability (and genes) to the dam. Then bred to a sire with very strong field genes, who also has both field and show genes in his background. Ain't hindsight great? It took a lot of years to "collect" all these genes, in just the right proportions, to create the "magic" that became Push.

Dave Beacock's post has SO many points in it that could make for threads of their own! Since the GRCA only gives Outstanding Dam and Sire status to US titles; and CGRC does the same, it tends to divide us into two groups that can tend to focus on one side of the border, or the other.

No question either that Sprint was one of the sires that brought the two countries closer together. Although his own genes are primarily US, he sired successful offspring in both countries. And Push is also doing so. Although his background is more US than Canadian, he is producing in both countries. Stanley also does this, with more input from Can lines. Boomer has primarily US lines, but has sired offspring making their mark in both countries as well.

And, yes, there are show breeders in both countries who can remember when Goldens in the show ring were more athletic in their appearance ... and a few show judges. Unfortunately, being mortals, there are fewer of them each year ... and it will become harder for the "bridge" to remain in place. Try to imagine if this dog http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=1185 could go Best In Show today. To me this is a "classic" Golden in appearance. Don't know if he had any field aptitude, since I didn't know the dog personally. But he was born 46 years ago! And then his gr-grandsire born in 1943
http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=953 was a CH-AFC.