FT Goldens then and now =Barty?

[Judy Chute]

..and now Jim has done fairly well with a Lab

[huntinman]

What most don't understand about the big time you get used to losing and it justs motivates you more.

That's exactly right... If not, you won't last long.

[Bait]

Too bad Melanie Foster and Jim Pickering aren't contributing to this thread. Talk about a wealth of knowledge!

Yup. They could fill in a lot of the blanks. Come on, Jim and Mel. Where are you?

[Bait]

That's true. Lew Daniels trained with guys like Tom Hubard who owned a field champion, Fred knez whom had the same plus judged about 60 or 70 all age trials my brother had a all-age dog amateur all age placements and myself who the same plus judge close to eight points at the time. So it wasn't like Lew read a couple of books and talked to few folks he was with a tough dedicated bunch of everyday trainers. What most don't understand about the big time you get used to losing and it justs motivates you more. Right huntinman you been there too.

Well put! ...and thanks for sharing alot of facts from the past Earl.

[Beverly Burns]

First of all to say that Jim Pickering has "done fairly well with a Lab" is an understatement. Making an FC AFC and competing in the National Open is a little more than doing fairly well. I've seen him on Facebook but no longer on this site. He had some wonderful dogs and great breedings during his "Golden" years. There is a reason that he took up the "other" breed and one can only guess why. I do have my thoughts.

[Judy Chute]

First of all to say that Jim Pickering has "done fairly well with a Lab" is an understatement. Making an FC AFC and competing in the National Open is a little more than doing fairly well. I've seen him on Facebook but no longer on this site. He had some wonderful dogs and great breedings during his "Golden" years. There is a reason that he took up the "other" breed and one can only guess why. I do have my thoughts.

Bev...my smiley face meant to be an indication of a little bit of humor.

Sorry..if it sounded otherwise..

Best,

Judy

[John Gassner]

Barty is obviously in most bigtime field pedigrees. I think some other sires that have and are producing well include Devil and Duncan. Both "nicked" with many bitches. Not sure if I've ever seen or heard of a Devil "dud"?

[Jennifer Henion]

Barty is obviously in most bigtime field pedigrees. I think some other sires that have and are producing well include Devil and Duncan. Both "nicked" with many bitches. Not sure if I've ever seen or heard of a Devil "dud"?

Have also been thinking that about Duncan - as I look at so many pedigrees. Wish I could see more of these dogs in action.

So John, which pup will you be picking out for Kippy from your history making litter? A sensitive one or the pig headed one?

[Criquetpas]

Well put! ...and thanks for sharing alot of facts from the past Earl.

Just sharing some of the good old days of IiliNOISE and SE Wisconsin . What many don't know many of the old field trial dogs originated in Milwaukee and the Chicago metro area. Even going back to James lamb Free , Just North of Milwaukee with Charles Morgan, and the original Retriever Trial news was part of Wisconsin Amateur Field Trial Club. To name a few and some of the old Golden Folks, Minnesota, Wisconsin and IlliNOISE.. Get Junbe to jump in here just about those three states. Dr George Gardner of the Midwest Field Trial Club wouldn't allow me to join the club and sent me to the American amateur Retriever Club more blue collar , blue jean club...both clubs now are basically one in the same Chicago metro area now.

[Gerry Clinchy]

You might want to refer to this website: www.undeniablegoldens.com
Top producing sires for FCs:

1 NAFC-FC TOPBRASS COTTON OS FDHF 7 /6 /1978 Male 5 FC Offspring
2 AFC YANKEE'S SMOKE'N RED DEVIL OS 1 /18/1978 Male 5 FC Offspring
3 FC-AFC BONNIE BROOKS ELMER OS FDHF 1 /27/1965 Male
4 FC Offspring4 AFC HOLWAY BARTY OS 2 /22/1971 Male 4 FC Offspring
5 FC-AFC OAKCREEK'S SIR DORCHESTER OS FDHF 1 /30/1948 Male 4 FC Offspring
6 POIKA OF HANDJEM OS 11/1 /1961 Male 4 FC Offspring
7 JOLLY AGAIN OF OUILMETTE CD *** OS 10/12/1961 Male 3 FC Offspring
8 ROCKHAVEN TUCK ** OS 10/26/1934 Male 3 FC Offspring
9 STILROVIN BEARCAT OS 6 /15/1953 Male 3 FC Offspring
10 STILROVIN BULLET *** OS 8 /8 /1936 Male 3 FC Offspring
11 WRAITH'S DUNCAN MH *** OS 10/14/1984 Male 3 FC Offspring

Top Producing Sires for AFCs
1 AFC HOLWAY BARTY OS 2 /22/1971 Male 7 AFC Offspring
2 AFC YANKEE'S SMOKE'N RED DEVIL OS 1 /18/1978 Male 7 AFC Offspring
3 FC-AFC BONNIE BROOKS ELMER OS FDHF 1 /27/1965 Male 5 AFC Offspring
4 NAFC-FC TOPBRASS COTTON OS FDHF 7 /6 /1978 Male 5 AFC Offspring
5 FC-AFC OAKCREEK'S SIR DORCHESTER OS FDHF 1 /30/1948 Male 4 AFC Offspring
6 POIKA OF HANDJEM OS 11/1 /1961 Male 4 AFC Offspring
7 WRAITH'S DUNCAN MH *** OS 10/14/1984 Male 4 AFC Offspring
8 JOLLY AGAIN OF OUILMETTE CD *** OS 10/12/1961 Male 3 AFC Offspring
9 FC-AFC KINIKE CHANCELLOR OS FDHF 8 /20/1969 Male 3 AFC Offspring
10 STILROVIN BEARCAT OS 6 /15/1953 Male 3 AFC Offspring
11 FC-AFC TIGATHOE'S KIOWA II OS FDHF 11/11/1971 Male 3 AFC Offspring
12 FC WRAITHS HTR MN BRO MACDHUIBH OS 10/14/1995 Male 3 AFC Offspring

It is then interesting to note the pedigree connections between these more recent top producing sires:Cotton & Duncan are both Barty sons; and Red was a Barty grandson. Elmer was a son of Tuffy; and Ki a son of Elmer.You might say that it's a small world

Since field trials keep getting more competitive and tests more difficult, (not to mention more expensive!) I might wonder than ANY sire will be able to top the #s of 5 and 7 of the present top producing sires. However, when going back to the dogs on this list from the 50s, we also need to take into account that the #s competing were not as large as those in later years. By the 70s and 80s the # of entries had grown dramatically.

Top Producing Sires of QAA
1 AFC HOLWAY BARTY OS 2 /22/1971 Male 42 AllAge Offspring
2 AFC YANKEE'S SMOKE'N RED DEVIL OS 1 /18/1978 Male 37 AllAge Offspring
3 NAFC-FC TOPBRASS COTTON OS FDHF 7 /6 /1978 Male 36 AllAge Offspring
4 AFC EMBERAIN RUGBY WCX OS FDHF 3 /16/1999 Male 27 AllAge Offspring
5 FC WRAITHS HTR MN BRO MACDHUIBH OS 10/14/1995 Male 26 AllAge Offspring
6 FC-AFC CHIEF SANDS OS FDHF 12/3 /1966 Male 22 AllAge Offspring
7 FC-AFC TANGELO'S SIDE KICK OS FDHF 5 /23/1981 Male 22 AllAge Offspring
8 FC-AFC GLENHAVEN HTRS MN BARONET MH OS FDHF 6 /15/1996 Male 19 AllAge Offspring
9 FC-AFC TIGATHOE'S KIOWA II OS FDHF 11/11/1971 Male 18 AllAge Offspring
10 FC-AFC WINDBREAKERS MIGHTY MO OS FDHF 3 /28/1983 Male 16 AllAge Offspring
11 WRAITH'S DUNCAN MH *** OS 10/14/1984 Male 16 AllAge Offspring

I think our hope springs eternal because those who have played the game realize that there are many other good performers out there who just won't quite make it into a lot of the statistics.

(Sorry for the crummy formatting, the cut 'n paste didn't retain the formatting.)