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Thread: FT Goldens then and now =Barty?

  1. #111

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    Guess it's time to stick some Canuck voice in here also. So far haven't seen Devil mentioned who seems to show up even more than Cotton and is a great sire of numerous great dogs.
    And I have to include Sprint in there who has donated to the game also but it seems like some of the top producing females are being left out of this. Takes a good stud but with out out a great female they would never throw anything.
    My hat goes off to the breeders who take a chance with there females to try the unknown studs who end up making them great. Maybe some day we will find that perfect combination in an out cross or a line breeding that will produce the next really great Goldens with no health problems to go and beat those black dogs.

    Dave Beacock

  2. #112
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Do you mean untitled studs?
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sue Kiefer View Post
    The first Field Trial Golden I ever saw being trained was Superior's Chevas,MH,*** owned by Tom Colstad. He was my neighbor and my teacher in HS.
    I used to go and watch him train with Ed Shoenbach(spelling?).
    I saw them run at the Manitowoc FT club my senior yr.
    Vern Weber was fun to listen talk of the Goldens he had.
    Sue
    I just realized I dated myself. Crap!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Sue have known you for awhile and this small World is getting scrary just did some PM with Nancy Pals. My brother taught at Tomahawk H.S English and Drama where he worked with Tom Colstad. Jerry lived in Merrill and Tom lived in Irma, you were his neighbor? I used to hunt and train dogs with Eddie Shoebach, who was also friends with Judy and Jim Powers. Mary Howley would come up to Eddie's place to train occasionly. My brother and I bought a Brittany from Tom too. Trained at his place a few times. I know except for Chevas, he was one heck of a Golden and rember him Well. I could fill a book withVern Weber's stories. His history with Goldens in the Wisconsin area is very well documented. His passing a few years ago left a void that cannot be replaced. I will not second hand his stories, but, the GRCA should contact maybe Brian Hartfield who has Webshire Kennels about Vern's Golden era. Many only know vern as the owner of FC/AFC Webshire Honest Abe, National Finalist, no 2 Derby list dog. There were Golden FC and Afc before Abe. He is sometimes over looked in the contributions he made to the field Goldens. Small World can't handle much more.
    Earl Dillow

  4. #114
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    This is all very interesting. In order to keep everything straight, I might have to make a giant wall map of the pedigrees and how they interconnect.

    In 1983, I asked my neighbour if he knew of any Golden puppies for sale. I knew he competed in obedience and we wanted a dog that would be a good family member but had a brain. I did not know Field Trials existed. That is a SHAME because the puppy we got through his recommendation was brilliant, birdy, had an utterly bomb proof temperament and was exceedingly handsome. He had no health issues either and lived to 15. Pedigree: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=53600
    Damn!

    Here is something I heard this past fall at a Trial in Michigan. I cannot vouch for the veracity but it is an interesting thought. The gist was that some serious, well known, old time show breeders are very disturbed about where the show lines have gone. They are concerned that the dogs have become overdone- too much coat, too much bone and not enough brain. Their solution: breed back to well structured field males who actually fit the breed standard.
    Hmmmmm.

    Medie

  5. #115
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    There will be a photo of Chevas (Tom Colstad) in the Mar/Apr GRNews in the first of a series on Golden Finalists in the Master Nationals.

    I have on my list to see what I can track down re Vern's Goldens. My understanding (and if it has been mentioned earlier on this thread, I apologize) is that when Vern's vision started fading, he went to black Labs as he could see them better in the field.

    Glenda

  6. #116

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    I apologize for not reading back farther or I would have realized that Devil had already been mentioned numerous times,
    On the untitled studs I will say when we used Mioaks Shaken Jake he was a great junior dog but had no titles to bad we didn't know much about thyroid problems or he might have gone on to be a really great stud. He was the sire of Sprint who when bred to Razz produced some great dogs in Canada and the US.
    I think some of the dogs that only have a Canadian FC or AFC are forgotten about unfortunately also as are the dogs that only run Hunt Tests although myself I do want to see a strong field background in there pedigree. I thank Mike Ducross for doing what he did with Sprint and now he has another great dog Push maybe not an American FC AFC but he the only Golden ever titled in field, obedience and show.
    I've head more than one Pro say that there are more FC and AFC dogs sitting on someones couch or in a duck blind that we will never see.
    If we listen to every gloomer and doomer out there we probably wouldn't have bred to a lot of the studs or bitches, you here so and so though bad hips or bad front ends or bad eyes or cancer or thyroid problems or epilepsy,
    It would be great if every dog bred had or never will have health problems, but at least there is the testing out there so we can avoid some. Thankfully something like this keeps are eyes open and makes us aware of some of the fantastic studs that have been around and hopefully keeps our minds open to look to see who might be the next really great stud but we don't all want to use him or the gene pool could get even smaller.

    Dave Beacock

  7. #117
    Senior Member Judy Chute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd6400 View Post
    Sorry about the quality,these have been in a closet for who knows how long.I`m not real good on this computer but will have some more of the old days comin up soon.
    Glenda might like to help you clean that closet out!
    Choctaw's Piscataquis Sebec UD MH CGC WCX ***(All-Breed AM 2nd)
    UCDX HR SR Sand Dancer's XX MTB Ranger UDT, MH, WCX **
    HR SR Scarlett's Andi O'Malley CD SH OA NAJ CGC (OAJ-2 Placements) 9/16/1995-3/31/2011

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenda Brown View Post
    There will be a photo of Chevas (Tom Colstad) in the Mar/Apr GRNews in the first of a series on Golden Finalists in the Master Nationals.

    I have on my list to see what I can track down re Vern's Goldens. My understanding (and if it has been mentioned earlier on this thread, I apologize) is that when Vern's vision started fading, he went to black Labs as he could see them better in the field.

    Glenda
    Yes, his wife Ethel died a number of years ago and he had no children, a nephew or two. Just don't want to lessen his contribution Brian bought his place from from Vern and I am sure he has some background.
    I knew some of the dogs from Sam Gunnerman's Coin of Copper that they had to run behind a car before they ran him to Tioga Joe and Sandstorm. I donot feel qualified , as many of these were second stories.
    Brian and Lisa Hartfield would be your best bet of hands on information. Most are deceased that knew his Golden Background. Vern had many funny stories. Jackie might have some background? Maybe Mary Howley and Mickey Strandberg too. I was at my daughters a short time ago and read the current GRCA magazine ,wow, compared to 30 years ago the last time I was a member of GRCA.
    Earl Dillow

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. Robinson View Post
    This is all very interesting. In order to keep everything straight, I might have to make a giant wall map of the pedigrees and how they interconnect.

    In 1983, I asked my neighbour if he knew of any Golden puppies for sale. I knew he competed in obedience and we wanted a dog that would be a good family member but had a brain. I did not know Field Trials existed. That is a SHAME because the puppy we got through his recommendation was brilliant, birdy, had an utterly bomb proof temperament and was exceedingly handsome. He had no health issues either and lived to 15. Pedigree: http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=53600
    Damn!

    Here is something I heard this past fall at a Trial in Michigan. I cannot vouch for the veracity but it is an interesting thought. The gist was that some serious, well known, old time show breeders are very disturbed about where the show lines have gone. They are concerned that the dogs have become overdone- too much coat, too much bone and not enough brain. Their solution: breed back to well structured field males who actually fit the breed standard.
    Hmmmmm.

    Medie
    My last Golden Litter was bred in 1980 AFC Wildfire of Riverview CDX to my Marshlands Lucky Trick OD ( a Barty bitch) I kept one of the pups trough a divorce and started to train him at 3 1/2 years old pointed QAA he lived until he was 16. I don't have a dog in this fight, but told some folks back then Barty was going to be bred into many generations and in the future it would be hard to find a non Barty in a field pedigree.

    I told the folks back then, when I went black, that I would find the most prominent field dogs and breed them to the most prominent obedience, rather then try to make another dual champion. I bred that bitch to a top Golden Show dog at the time and the pups were just about useless as far as field ability goes, pretty dogs, prepotent sires, but not even a good nose. Trixie was out of Barty and a Chief Sands bitch, but, the conformation dogs were so prepotent, produce themselves, the field wasn't even evident. Not much of a sampling I guess, but, an observation and followed that breeding to the second generation and it did not change.
    They might be on to something M. Robinson!
    Earl Dillow

  10. #120
    Senior Member jd6400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy Chute View Post
    Glenda might like to help you clean that closet out!
    Miss Jen,do you know who that photo is? Jim

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