FT Goldens then and now =Barty?

[jd6400]

I can tell you this from my experience,todays chessy is not the chessy we had back in the late 60`s and early 70`s.They seem to be much softer now.
Don`t get many goldens but the goldens I`ve had have been a dream to work with.
Let me say this about the labs,now we are talkin about labs that hunt nov. dec. jan. in ice and very cold water in the north.We had very little negative feedback from clients in the old days about labs no-going in cold water.I get quite a few nowadays.
One of my jobs as a kid was introducing pups to water,it involved 2 or three pups and a puppy dummie walkin back to grandma`s pond and wading in letting them follow in running water then pitch the dummy,all would swim and two days of this that was water intro.Nowadays I can spend a week or two before I get the same results.
I realize,I`m not getting the cream of the crop to work with but alot in the old days weren`t either.
When a breed gets popular ,people see a way to make money and spit pups out not paying attention to ability around water,trainability (biddable) and a host of others and I think people need to pay closer attention NOWADAYS in their purchase.

You mentioned "holding a grudge"in dogs ,my experience has been the chessy holds that honor!!!!

I`ll tell you a breed that I thught very highly of from a gundog standpoint is the Flatcoat.Just don`t see them anymore.
Back in the early 80`s I was approached by Vern Vogel (now deceased) to bring his showdog Flatcoats to senior or even MH level .HisKennel name was Bolingbroke Kennels.I might of had 6 or more at one time and there was a ton of natural ability in those dogs.Nuff rambling on my part...Jim

[Glenda Brown]

I have had an article on "Kate" (Carma's bitch) on my computer for a couple of years waiting to get some photos from Carma. But---Carma is still so sentimental about Kate, that I can't talk to her without Carma breaking down. As a result, going to go with what I have and it will be in the GRNs sometime this year.

Re Gerry (and she and I have many discussions--all interesting, at least to us) I have definitely found Goldens much more accepting of a correction with an e-collar as long as they understand why there is the correction and that the correction was fair compared to a personal correction. They tend to take personal corrections more to heart---ie, sort of a "look me in the eye" and explain to me why you just did what you did---very similar to what my Dad did to me. Re straight lines----I don't necessarily think it is a Lab vs. Golden thing. I have had Goldens that would keep going on a line forever and have had Labs who would do the same. Also, have had others of both breeds that really had to learn just what a straight line entailed. Just like with people---if you ever want to know how straight you walk, lay a track for a dog on a frosty field and then check it out.

I have asked Jackie to do an additional write up re Cotton and have been asking others who either owned or had information about some of the famous old Goldens to write about them as well. Would love to have input from the Mid-West group because that is where so many of the top Goldens originated. Any suggestions or contact info, please send it to me privately. I certainly appreciate all the feedback there has been on this thread.

The articles about hunting with Goldens such as done by John and Bait have been very well received.

Glenda

[Gerry Clinchy]

Glenda, just read the Jim Gonia article in the last GRCA News. Really interesting to see him point out about water sight blinds and pattern blinds that most people probably don't stick with them long enough.

[Jennifer Henion]

Gerry, thanks again for your posts. The one on genetics is especially interesting to me. What sticks in my mind after reading many history articles Glenda sent is that so many of these GREAT breedings, like:
• Poika of Handjem (who had no titles and just happened to be the only decent male around),
• Breedings out Gilnockie Coquet (a dam with no desire to hunt or swim)
• The mating of Barty to a show dog named Sunstream Gypsy (Topbrass Cotton's parents)

seemed like total "shots in the dark", but made some of the best dogs in Golden field history.

Another theme I keep seeing in the old stories of the great field goldens, is the magic luck that so many total amateurs and first time dog owners had - making pups into field champions. Thinking of the Torch Flinn pups who went to Ams with full time blue collar jobs who made their first pups into FCs and AFCs. Then Elaine Klicker, with her $125 pup she made up to FC AFC. And many others. It all kind of makes me wonder and hold out hope!

Glenda, CAN'T WAIT to see your future articles! You have filled my last few days with pure joy and so look forward to your future offerings. If you publish/edit a book with this stuff, I will pay double the price for it and read it 10 times.

Jennifer

[jluther]

No idea how old Mike Lardy is, but I wonder if his father is still alive? I'll bet he is a wealth of information, since he had Handjem kennels with several great old goldies. Plus you have to think he ran and trained with any other great goldens of that time period.

Mike's father passed away a couple-few years ago.

Very much appreciating this thread, all. Thank you.

-Julie

[John Robinson]

Jennifer, you are becoming a student of the game, that's a good thing.

John

[Criquetpas]

Lots of rags to riches stories. I trained with Lew Daniels owner trainer of AFC Wildfire of Riverview CDX wasn't trained for field work until he was 18 months old. Became QAA with a second place at four years old. My old training partner Fred Knez and my brother Jerry both trialers, chided Lew about running a 4 plus year old dog in the Qual. I kept my mouth shut as I knew Lew was a driven man , long distance runner. Titled Sparky, double header winner in Ohio Valley,
Half point short of his FC a year later, plus put a CDX in the winter. In his brief breeding career produced some titled dogs including my almost Shotzy. Lew was a working stiff at a factory , slept in his van at trials. One year had 18 amateur all age starts, a lot for a workin guy. Sparky developed a low sperm count, tried to do another breeding as did Jackie Mertens, but, to no avail. Divorce took it's toll , Sparky and Lew left the trial game. Jackie called a few years back and wanted to know if I knew where Lew was, gave a 15 year old number and he answered. She wrote about Sparky as one of the more famous dogs on her Website. My brother is now gone killed in a car accident, but, I sure rubbed it in about Lew, working man's Golden.

[Judy Chute]

Lots of rags to riches stories. I trained with Lew Daniels owner trainer of AFC Wildfire of Riverview CDX wasn't trained for field work until he was 18 months old. Became QAA with a second place at four years old. My old training partner Fred Knez and my brother Jerry both trialers, chided Lew about running a 4 plus year old dog in the Qual. I kept my mouth shut as I knew Lew was a driven man , long distance runner. Titled Sparky, double header winner in Ohio Valley,
Half point short of his FC a year later, plus put a CDX in the winter. In his brief breeding career produced some titled dogs including my almost Shotzy. Lew was a working stiff at a factory , slept in his van at trials. One year had 18 amateur all age starts, a lot for a workin guy. Sparky developed a low sperm count, tried to do another breeding as did Jackie Mertens, but, to no avail. Divorce took it's toll , Sparky and Lew left the trial game. Jackie called a few years back and wanted to know if I knew where Lew was, gave a 15 year old number and he answered. She wrote about Sparky as one of the more famous dogs on her Website. My brother is now gone killed in a car accident, but, I sure rubbed it in about Lew, working man's Golden.

Great post.. Earl, did you know, see "Buck" train and or trial?

http://k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=1059

FC AFC Sunfire's XX Buckshot OS (11/23/1981-)

My Ranger goes right back to him on his sire's side and I love that old pedigree... Ranger is 12 years old now, but was a "hot" little dog..and a great marking dog, tons of talent.

[hotel4dogs]

this has been an amazing thread. Thanks!

[Criquetpas]

Yes, Jim Morgan is a friend. Buck was an excellent Derby dog too, think he won a big Derby at less then a year old.
Of course he was part of that South end of Chicago Gary indiana mafia, John Trzepacz River Oaks Corky, Joe Pilar,
River Oaks Rascal, all working stiffs midnight shifters, a Golden had to be good to train with that bunch! All amateur trainers. Jim Morgan, Bucks owner, was part of that crew, born and bred Gary Indiana. Jim is in minoqua Wisconsin now and lurks on this forum if you can out him!