FT Goldens then and now =Barty?

[huntinman]

Gerry, thanks again for your posts. The one on genetics is especially interesting to me. What sticks in my mind after reading many history articles Glenda sent is that so many of these GREAT breedings, like:
• Poika of Handjem (who had no titles and just happened to be the only decent male around),
• Breedings out Gilnockie Coquet (a dam with no desire to hunt or swim)
• The mating of Barty to a show dog named Sunstream Gypsy (Topbrass Cotton's parents)

seemed like total "shots in the dark", but made some of the best dogs in Golden field history.

Another theme I keep seeing in the old stories of the great field goldens, is the magic luck that so many total amateurs and first time dog owners had - making pups into field champions. Thinking of the Torch Flinn pups who went to Ams with full time blue collar jobs who made their first pups into FCs and AFCs. Then Elaine Klicker, with her $125 pup she made up to FC AFC. And many others. It all kind of makes me wonder and hold out hope!

Glenda, CAN'T WAIT to see your future articles! You have filled my last few days with pure joy and so look forward to your future offerings. If you publish/edit a book with this stuff, I will pay double the price for it and read it 10 times.

Jennifer

The only thing I would say about those dogs becoming titled Jen is that there was probably very little luck and a whole lot of hard work. Didn't know any of those folks but they probably trained with other experience trainers like Earl mentions...
Luck = preparation meeting opportunity.

[Judy Chute]

Yes, Jim Morgan is a friend. Buck was an excellent Derby dog too, think he won a big Derby at less then a year old.
Of course he was part of that South end of Chicago Gary indiana mafia, John Trzepacz River Oaks Corky, Joe Pilar,
River Oaks Rascal, all working stiffs midnight shifters, a Golden had to be good to train with that bunch! All amateur trainers. Jim Morgan, Bucks owner, was part of that crew, born and bred Gary Indiana. Jim is in minoqua Wisconsin now and lurks on this forum if you can out him!

Thank you for that history, Earl. Have been told before that Jim lurks here and perhaps he might jump in. This after a similar post begging for information in regards to Buck, the dog himself, how he worked, temperment, photos..health and I was told he had a good long life..all that great stuff.

I would take ten of my Ranger with the great stuff behind him. Sebec's pedigree does go back to the same and I am more than happy to have it there.

Maybe your post will "out" him this time!

Special thanks to Gerry as well..and the close lines vs outcross....is oh, so true. Have to be a very strong person to take all that on..line breeding and making tough decisions when necessary. As much as I would like to, it isn't always smooth going..an important aspect to seriously consider.

Love my "boys"..and would have none other..they are fabulous and willing to play at any game. Love Golden Retrievers for that ability to multi-task.

Judy

[Glenda Brown]

Jim Morgan, if you are lurking, would you mind contacting me privately. I have Buck on my list of potential articles---have a photo of him but am having a problem getting much solid info. Would love to have you write about him.

Thanks.

Glenda

[huntinman]

I'm not a "golden person", but I admire good dogs whenever I see them run. When I was still new to the game I got to see Topbrass Cotton run in Alaska. But the best Golden I saw run over the course of several seasons (and judge as well) has to be John and Janice Gunn's dog Boomer (FTCH AFTCH FC AFC Cdn OTCH TNT’s Explosion, UD, WX, OS OHF, FDHF US Amateur National Finalist).

He loved water and hit it just as hard on a blind as he did on a mark. He won an AM I judged in WA state and I still remember that water blind ten years later like it just happened! Cotton and Barty of course are in his pedigree and on the other side, Smokin Red Devil. I'm sure you guys will know the pedigree a lot better than I.

Just a fun dog to watch...

[Jennifer Henion]

Bill Davis, thanks for your posts! You're so right about the def. of Luck. What I really meant was they were lucky to have been paired with the pup they got. It does take a good match and sometimes a litter of pups is like a box of chocolates. They got good matches for them! But agreed, preparation and good people to help are paramount.

Loved your comments on having watched and judged Boomer! He is my pups grandsire on the mom's side. The Gunn's other famous dog Stanley Steamer is my pup's sire. Her litter was a funny mix. There were a couple of real fluffies full of hair and full of GO! One of those had a lightning strike on her head, just like Boomer had as a pup. Mine is more red, with a sleek coat and looks just like Stanley. Yesterday she hit the cold February water with a flying leap! I feel "lucky" to have been able to choose her, from the 6 left, as we are a great match for each other.

Thanks again for sharing!!

Jen

[KNorman]

Too bad Melanie Foster and Jim Pickering aren't contributing to this thread. Talk about a wealth of knowledge!

[Criquetpas]

The only thing I would say about those dogs becoming titled Jen is that there was probably very little luck and a whole lot of hard work. Didn't know any of those folks but they probably trained with other experience trainers like Earl mentions...
Luck = preparation meeting opportunity.

That's true. Lew Daniels trained with guys like Tom Hubard who owned a field champion, Fred knez whom had the same plus judged about 60 or 70 all age trials my brother had a all-age dog amateur all age placements and myself who the same plus judge close to eight points at the time. So it wasn't like Lew read a couple of books and talked to few folks he was with a tough dedicated bunch of everyday trainers. What most don't understand about the big time you get used to losing and it justs motivates you more. Right huntinman you been there too.

[DSemple]

Gerry, thanks again for your posts. The one on genetics is especially interesting to me. What sticks in my mind after reading many history articles Glenda sent is that so many of these GREAT breedings, like:
• Poika of Handjem (who had no titles and just happened to be the only decent male around),
• Breedings out Gilnockie Coquet (a dam with no desire to hunt or swim)
• The mating of Barty to a show dog named Sunstream Gypsy (Topbrass Cotton's parents)

seemed like total "shots in the dark", but made some of the best dogs in Golden field history.

Another theme I keep seeing in the old stories of the great field goldens, is the magic luck that so many total amateurs and first time dog owners had - making pups into field champions. Thinking of the Torch Flinn pups who went to Ams with full time blue collar jobs who made their first pups into FCs and AFCs. Then Elaine Klicker, with her $125 pup she made up to FC AFC. And many others. It all kind of makes me wonder and hold out hope!

Glenda, CAN'T WAIT to see your future articles! You have filled my last few days with pure joy and so look forward to your future offerings. If you publish/edit a book with this stuff, I will pay double the price for it and read it 10 times.

Jennifer

Back in the 60's 70's & 80's a lot of those show bred goldens could really mark.

[Judy Chute]

..."What most don't understand about the big time you get used to losing and it justs motivates you more.."

Well said!!! ..

[cakaiser]

Too bad Melanie Foster and Jim Pickering aren't contributing to this thread. Talk about a wealth of knowledge!

My thoughts, too.
Great respect to both of them. For their significant impact on their breed.