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Thread: Puzzled or Perplexed, Either Way Cant Figure This One Out, Water Entry/Retrieve

  1. #41
    Senior Member RailRoadRetrievers's Avatar
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    Update, I followed your advice today John. 30 Yards from water at heel, sitting, bumper out and she makes retrieve, five yards up same thing, five yards up, same thing, waters edge, no hesitation, no sign of no go or no wanting to go, I walked two feet out in the water and she did it each and every time with not a problem one.

    So I'm guessing the next step is to start out at the edge right away?

  2. #42
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Who is it who has that great Mitch Patterson quote about it being much easier to put pressure on a dog that taking it off? That is so true, easy to force, not so easy to "un-force".
    And this one had ''Hard Mouth as well''!..
    No Force, is A greater incentive to 'Force' the desire.

    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RailRoadRetrievers View Post
    Update, I followed your advice today John. 30 Yards from water at heel, sitting, bumper out and she makes retrieve, five yards up same thing, five yards up, same thing, waters edge, no hesitation, no sign of no go or no wanting to go, I walked two feet out in the water and she did it each and every time with not a problem one.

    So I'm guessing the next step is to start out at the edge right away?

    Why ? one days success doesn't resolve the problem ...give the dog several more days of success and then test at the edge...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  4. #44
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    Why ? one days success doesn't resolve the problem ...give the dog several more days of success and then test at the edge...Steve S
    Sounds like damn good advice to me.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  5. #45
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    Shawn - that is exactly what I did - waded in and teased her with the bread gradually got back on land. She was 6 months old at the time and ended up with her title.
    If you play their game train the way they train

  6. #46
    Senior Member thelast2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    Why ? one days success doesn't resolve the problem ...give the dog several more days of success and then test at the edge...Steve S
    +2 You gain nothing by getting into a hurry in dog training
    Jesse

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  7. #47
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=RailRoadRetrievers;1076667]Update, I followed your advice today John. 30 Yards from water at heel, sitting, bumper out and she makes retrieve, five yards up same thing, five yards up, same thing, waters edge, no hesitation, no sign of no go or no wanting to go, I walked two feet out in the water and she did it each and every time with not a problem one.

    So I'm guessing the next step is to start out at the edge right away?[/QUOTE]

    Good for you Kamo. If it were my dog I wouldn't push the issue of running right from the edge right away for a couple reasons; 1) as others have pointed out the problem may not be solidly fixed and 2) we generally run water marks from further back anyway. I would continue run from all distances, starting from where she is most comfortable, her drive to retrieve and general enjoyment of the retrieve is what overcame her fear of the edge to start with. Keep it fun and occasionally work up to the edge until she doesn't seem to notice where she is running from.

    The ironic thing is that in the higher levels they typically run from further back as it is considered more difficult, they sometimes run Junior from the shore as it takes the cheat out and is usually an easier retrieve, your dog just had some weird phobia that you seem to have overcome.

    John

  8. #48
    Senior Member RailRoadRetrievers's Avatar
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    I wasn't really thinking I was rushing anything. I had three supporting thoughts that lead me to go right for step #2

    1. I missed my natural calling, by nature I am a prolific dog trainer who has the ability to communicate with the animal explaining verbally what I expect and after some convincing she complied.
    2. Maybe its one of those odd quirks that she will put on display on occasion, meaning force fetch is the right step. Maybe she just didn't wanna.
    3. I was curious as to see if the issue would duplicate itself and if in fact that was the initial issue.

    I have no issue with taking it slow, the work is needed any how, so a few extra marks from further back is perfect to me.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Seems like this dog is missing a lot of tools in her tool box. I think this is one of those interesting things that happens, but I'd probably just let it go and go back to CC FF and eventual pile work, then when you have the tools to correct for a no fetch, or No go, and FTP pressured backs, start water forcing, from back then moving closer to the shore. See if the problem doesn't fix itself after she has a solid understanding of her job, retrieving, and pressure (indirect/direct). If you still have the issue after those foundations are in place you might have to get inventive, but I wouldn't even try fixing it until I know the dog is a reliable CC & FF retriever.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 03-04-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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