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Thread: Silver "Labs" and AKC

  1. #51
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb504079 View Post
    That's also my understanding. Therefore, people are falsifying their registration of silver labs. Either way, I think the AKC should be a little more clear about this issue. But I don't see how that would stop someone from registering a silver pup as a chocolate. Someone else said it earlier, there are a ton of people who aren't concerned about the integrity of the breed. They just want the newest fad so they can tell everyone about how they bought a rare dog.
    There is a big difference between telling somebody that they can't register a dilute Lab as a Silver, and saying that it is perfectly fine to intentionally produce dilution, and register it as Chocolate.

    I'm not saying that you shouldn't be allowed to register a dog with a disqualifying fault like dilution, tan points, or even polka dots.
    Sometimes when you breed two dogs, you find something weird.

    But, you don't keep trying to intentionally produce it.

    What makes dilution in Labs unique, is that there is a demand for it, and there is money to be made, by intentionally reproducing it.
    And that makes it a problem.

    For the registry, it's a problem that while not without similar precedent, has not yet been satisfactorily resolved.
    It's been ignored, and allowed to grow into a bigger problem.
    Last edited by copterdoc; 02-26-2013 at 12:23 PM.

  2. #52
    Senior Member jb504079's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    There is a big difference between telling somebody that they can't register a dilute Lab as a Silver, and saying that it perfectly fine to intentionally produce dilution, and register it as Chocolate.

    I'm not saying that you shouldn't be allowed to register a dog with a disqualifying fault like dilution, tan points, or even polka dots.
    Sometimes when you breed two dogs, you find something weird.

    But, you don't keep trying to intentionally produce it.

    What makes dilution in Labs unique, is that there is a demand for it, and there is money to be made, by intentionally reproducing it.
    And that makes it a problem.

    For the registry, it's a problem that while not without similar precedent, has not yet been satisfactorily resolved.
    It's been ignored, and allowed to grow into a bigger problem.
    Completely agree. As long as there is a demand for em, problem will persist.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    True a responsible breeder when faced with a odd duck puppy, sells them on limited registration and insists that they are nuetered/spayed, so the gene doesn't stay in the population. Still most silvers, I've seen, that actually look like labs, look to be just a very light forms of chocolate, the only way you know they are silver is because people want to brag about it. Where-as a normal person who test& trials would be trying to convince people he was chocolate. Trained one up for a person a few years ago, he might've been silver to the owner, but he was chocolate on the truck
    "They's Just DAWGS"
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  4. #54
    Member AllAroundLab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takem_brewer View Post
    If the people that breed silver labs would like to be able to legitimately register their pups/dogs with the akc, there best bet would be to start their own breed and go from there. It would take a long time, but could be done. They could call themselves whatever they want (silver retrievers or whatever), make their own standard, etc.... By then I would think there would be some responsible breeders to promote the new breed.
    Where is "like" on this forum!

    If a breeder or group of breeders is intentionally breeding for a trait that is objectively at odds with the breed standard (color, as opposed to subjective disagreement over things like what is "moderate"), it seems obvious that they are creating a new breed, so they shouldn't continue to call it by the name of an existing breed.

    If silver breeders want to be respected, step up and form a breed club for their new breed, a club rescue network, do real health clearances...

  5. #55
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    I don't want a silver but I do want one of these:
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    DISCLAIMER: The above post is the opinionated and biased view of your's truly, Lonnie Spann, and is in no way intended to reflect the opinions or views of the unfortunate individuals named below who just happen to be doomed with guilt by association.

    Member of CAHRC and North AL HRC. I train with AND AM FRIENDS WITH: Fishduck, Laidback, Splash_Em, RF2, Drake2014, Claimsadj, Hooked on Quackers, RookieTrainer and Roseberry.

    HRCH Spann's Quacker Jack "Jack" 500 Pt. Club (New & IMPROVED jacket).

  6. #56
    Senior Member Swack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie R. View Post
    My sister has 2 silver Labs and is a case study for people that disagree with luvalab's posts (especially #35). What am I going to do, "unfriend" her because I disagree with her choice of pet? Her first silver is actually a dilute black, or charcoal-colored dog, now 12. No real beef with that one or how she got it as the dog is a rescue, and even she calls her a Lab x Weim cross because that's what she looks like. She got her at 5 mos. I've told her about the controversy surrounding them and even pointed out some of the threads on this board and elsewhere. To give you an idea of how much of an impression that information made on her, a year ago she bought one of those "evil" overpriced silver Labs. Even though she looked online to find it, her reason for wanting one was that she didn't care if it was a mutt, she likes the one she has so much she wanted another.

    Fast forward to now, her puppy is absolutely one of the sweetest Labs you could ever meet. But at just 8 mos. he was diagnosed with such horrific, crippling dysplasia in both hips and elbows that he's doomed to living a life of pain. He can't run and play like other dogs his age. He can barely negotiate steps. He also has a host of auto immune problems (things that don't normally show up in young dogs). My sister claims the breeder said the parents had hips xrayed, but not only did she never get papers, the papers this breeder did provide were ACA or one of those other bogus registries. When she went to pick the puppy up (at 5 wks.) she was not allowed inside the house, nor would they show her either parent.

    She's furious and naively thought she could sue the breeder to make things right so she started looking online to see if they'd moved because....surprise, surprise! they've closed their website, email and phone number. In her crusade she found several other disgruntled buyers that like my sister, were no doubt well intentioned but totally clueless about what to look for in a purebred dog of any breed. The particular breeder that sold these damaged puppies, apparently does not register them with AKC, but the pups came with "papers" from one of those bogus registries, ACA I think, and none of the buyers knew enough to recognize this as a red flag. The pups had problems ranging from crippling genetic flaws like my sister's, and stuff like demodectic mange, etc., at least two people had pups that died of parvo within the first 4 days. One poor family took their pup in to be neutered and during the course of the surgery their vet found the pup had a vagina, too--it was a hermaphrodite!

    None of these people, including my sister, are what I'd call dumb or uneducated--except about what's involved in producing a quality purebred puppy. Those of us in the small, rather insular world of competing our dogs and seeking the best when we breed a litter or look for a new pup, forget that very few pet ownersknow what a title is, much less the difference between registration papers from the AKC or the American Pet Dog Registry. "Breed standard" to most of the world, means a representative of that breed made famous by movies, TV or a viral youtube video. Genetic health issues are something us dog snobs like to talk about so we can trash other breeders. I could go on, but you get the point. Silver Labs are but the tip of the iceburg of the big bad world of things to sucker the average pet dog buyer out of his duckets.

    I even felt a twinge of guilt, am I so techical and pedantic when I talk about what's involved in breeding that I make people, even my own sister, glaze over and tune me out?

    Julie,

    No one is suggesting that you "unfriend" your sister or even that you "hate" her dog. All I was saying is that we (those who own, breed, test, trial, love and know the Labrador retriever) should NOT act as if the so-called "silver, charcoal, or champagne Labs" are acceptable Labrador retrievers! According to the standard, colors other than Black, Yellow, or Chocolate are a disqualifying trait. Don't tell me about symantics; Silver isn't chocolate! Even if it was it is a very poor shade that should not be intentionally bred. If sold they should be sold without registration or at the very least with a limited registration so their "fault" will not be perpetuated.

    I agree with you that the general public is ignorant about pure-bred dogs and what to look for when buying a dog. But, ignorance can be fixed! In this day of instant information at nearly everyone's fingertips there is no excuse for a person to not be able to get the facts. Those who don't are lazy and may be thinking with their "hearts" rather than using the brain god gave them. Don't feel guilty for your sister's poor choice. She made her own bed. I'm betting she may be willing to listen to you the next time she thinks about buying a dog!

    Swack
    Jeff Swackhamer

  7. #57
    Senior Member mlp's Avatar
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    If the Lab breed gets ruined by the silver color I will just switch to a Golden Retriever
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Vigeland View Post
    I was thinking of getting a British Silver Lab...
    Okay, now I'll break out the popcorn!

  9. #59
    Senior Member Erik Vigeland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyJ View Post
    Okay, now I'll break out the popcorn!
    I was totally kidding...just in case the sarcasm didn't come through on that post!
    Thanks,

    Erik
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    Dam: Old Oak's Ipswich Addie JH


  10. #60
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Do they even have silver labs in Britain? Might help with the cross-breed vs. hidden dilution gene arguments
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast) Rip. July-2014
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    HR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

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