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Thread: Need Advice Lardy's Indirect Pressure

  1. #21
    Senior Member Clay Warren's Avatar
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    Well, needless to say I'm at a loss....I think Ive tried everything but pull my hair out. Gave her 4 days off = no improvement even on an extremely simplified scale, moved to a different location, tried to move to collar fetch (gave no collar stimulus through any of this) today but any sort of pressure seems to shut her down and now she completely clams up and acts like she has never been FF'd with ear pinch! Just not sure what went wrong when obedience, FF, CC, etc. went so smoothly (all of which were completed to the accepted standards with no short cutting). The only thing I can think of is that she is starting to cycle which may be throwing her into a funk as her first birthday is right around the corner. So if anyone has anything to add or additional advice thank you in advance and Ill keep at it.

    Thanks,

    Clay
    "Dont insult the alligator until you have crossed the river"

  2. #22
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoLab21 View Post
    .....she completely clams up and acts like she has never been FF'd with ear pinch!
    Maybe she hasn't been.

  3. #23
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoLab21 View Post
    .....obedience, FF, CC, etc. went so smoothly....
    I think that's the problem.

  4. #24
    Senior Member PhilBernardi's Avatar
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    "No, here (nick), sit".

    I read that and thought you need to go back and review the DVDs up to the point you are at. Read the manual as well.

    The above is an inconsistant use of force and command.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Clay Warren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Maybe she hasn't been.
    ? I don't get it...

    1. Teach hold - check (solid hold stationary and in motion with 2" bumper, wooden dowl, even a wooden handled hammer, let go on "drop")
    2. Ear pinch - check (taught dog how to turn the ear pressure off then slowly moved to picking the bumper off the ground until I could barely get her ear pinched as she lunged for the bumper on "fetch")
    3. Walking fetch - check (circular path at heel w/ 5-7 bumpers, moved to intermittent ear pinches, extremely high compulsion to grab bumper on "fetch")
    4. Stick fetch - check (worked to replace intermittent ear pinch with slight but increasing stick pressure, ended after her compulsion to grab the bumper and escape the pressure on "fetch" was so high I couldn't catch her with the stick even with my fastest attempts).

    where is the FF method inadequate?
    "Dont insult the alligator until you have crossed the river"

  6. #26
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoLab21 View Post
    ...where is the FF method inadequate?
    It isn't about the method. It's about the objective.

    It does not sound like you achieved the objective. She doesn't understand pressure.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    If she is coming into heat that could be a reason for the shutdown. Especially if it is the first one. I just send my client females home when they come in season.

    It's hard to say if there was holes in the ff process without actually seeing it. But, generally there comes a time in walking ff that you will start to get refusals. And you have to work your way through these refusals. It is generally a couple days into walking ff. At least that is my experience.

    Howard N. states that the refusal stage is about eight days into the ff process in his experience.

    Things that I would do:
    1. Wait her out on the heat cycle and see if that is an issue.
    2. If it is not a cycle issue, put her up for a week. Hopefully you have an outside kennel. Don't let her out to play or train with her at all. Just feed, water and ignore. Sometimes this does wonders to clear their heads and they will come out ready to work again.

    This is the best advice I can come up with without having seen the dog.
    Last edited by Wayne Nutt; 03-05-2013 at 07:16 PM.
    Wayne Nutt
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Clay Warren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    It isn't about the method. It's about the objective.

    It does not sound like you achieved the objective. She doesn't understand pressure.
    I just have a hard time believing that her snappy compulsion during FF and her driving like a bat out of hell on a here whistle or her quick sharp sits on a sit whistle that developed over the last 5 months of yard sessions was her faking or doing it because she all of a sudden felt like it and not a product of avoidance training to escape collar correction or ear pinch.
    "Dont insult the alligator until you have crossed the river"

  9. #29
    Senior Member Clay Warren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    If she is coming into heat that could be a reason for the shutdown. Especially if it is the first one. I just send my client females home when they come in season.
    Wayne I'm thinking maybe so...she should be right there within the next week or so at least. This will be her first cycle.
    "Dont insult the alligator until you have crossed the river"

  10. #30
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    So Copter doc How would you suggest the OP figure out if the dog knows how to respond to pressure?
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