Does the 90 have levels 1-6 or 1-5?
I remember that TT added a level 6 and saying that 6 wasn't hotter than 5. They had added a lower level at the lower end.
"If you run Field Trials, you learn to swallow your disappointment quickly."
"Field trials are not a game for good dogs. They're for great dogs with great training." E. Graham
The lowest low on the 500, is significantly lower than the lowest you can go with the Field 90.
But, I wouldn't say that a High 6 isn't as "hot" as a level 6 on the Field 90.
At the same dial setting the "tics" do seem to hit harder with the Field 90. But, they aren't even close to the frequency they are when you hit both buttons simultaneously with the 500.
The best way I could describe it, is that a 2M with the 500, is almost exactly like a 1 on the Field 90.
And at the top of the scale, a 6M on the 500 isn't as hot as a 6 is on the Field 90. But, a 6H from the 500, is at least as aversive as a 6 from the 90.
Last edited by copterdoc; 03-03-2013 at 05:50 PM.
So, if we lie to the Government, it's a felony ,but if the Government lies to us ,it's politics.
" I'm drunk, and even I know that it ain't right." Copterdoc 2013
What do I do then if my dog generally operates on a 3H and I get in a situation where the dog may need a bit more "persuasion"? Are you saying I forego the 4L and go to a 4M? Seems to me that require's too much thought when all I need to do is turn the dial a notch and hit the low buttion. Also, it sounds if all levels would have to operate this way...and it simply isn't the way my collar is. I'm not arguing, rather, telling you what I know my collar does. I guess mines and odd ball.
Last edited by Hoytman; 03-03-2013 at 09:06 PM.
if your go to level is a 3 high, it is what you and your dog like, use a 4 setting and the low medium and high of 4 will start off a bit below your high 3 and end up a bit above.
"So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold
"The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin
There is a level, at which the collar is aversive enough to influence behavior, when the dog is in a calm state of mind. That level, is a number on the dial.
There is another level, above that, where the collar is so aversive, that it makes the dog quit thinking, and panic.
There is a pretty wide range, between those two levels. For most dogs.
The low, med, and high buttons, usually fall well within that range.
Regardless of how great the distracting influence is, that may require you to exceed what is normally the minimum required to get through to your dog.
The reading are what they are, either by a test light, and/or a meter. Nothing I can do to change something he says is showing up as a fact.
Okay...so bare with me.
If my hypothetical 3H scenario is changed and the dog actualy works on a 3M level (#3, top button)...whatever number level its on...it doesn't matter the number level, just the top button on any number level. If I needed to go from that number level and medium and increase up 2 levels, where would I be on the collar according to Mr. Davis's findings? According to what I know that my collar does, two notches up would automatically be the 4l setting. However, according to Mr. Davis's findings I would only have moved up one stimulation level because the 3H is supposedly hotter than the 4l setting. So, according to what some of you are saying I would end up going from a 3M (where this dog works) to 3h...skip 4low because it's less intense than a 3h...and for two steps higher to be completed end up at a 4M. That virtually eliminates a low setting being used on any number if you started on a Medium number level.
It might look confusing to read, and it may even sound confusing when you read it out loud...but it is not confusing when you throw away the meters for pro 500xls's, place that collar in your hand, start at 1l,1m,1h, 2l, 2m, 2h, 3l, 3m, 3h, etc.
If your pro 500 is different, then it's different and I can accept that, but once again I know by feel what mine does.
I have been to 3 Smartwork seminars and watched Mr. Graham cc to "here" numerous dogs. I've done this very same thing on 4 dogs myself. All have been working up the scale in a 1l, 1m, 1h, 2l, 2m, 2h, 3l, 3m, etc., and back down in a similar fashion. Obvious reactions can be observed with virtually all but the lowest of stimulations. These reactions mimick my own finding placing the collar in my hand.
Not one single time have I ever heard Mr. Graham ever explain, at any (3)seminar(s) or in any of his videos, that I can recall, that I must bounce back and forth on a pro 500 when progressing up the scale. Not once. It was a sequintial and logical progression, just as it was on my hand, 1L, 1M, 1H, 2L, 2M, 2H, 3L, 3M, 3H, 4L, 4M, 4H, etc. If I have misrepresented what he taught me, then I owe him a public apology., as well as to all of you.
I write none of this with a tone to be demeaning to anyone, rather, stressing what I've learned and what I've felt on my own hand and leg. Make fun of that if you wish. It's your call.
I can't and won't sit here and say that Mr. Davis's findings are false according to the test light, and/or a meter. That only leaves trying the collar on ones self. I'm not asking anyone to do what I did by trying the collar on themselves. However, I don't need any sort of meter for "my" collar. I found out for myself. If none of you are willing to do the same it is fine with me.
Hoytman, FWIW, I agree with you as long as the continuous mode is used. In momentary, a HIGH nick feels worse to me than a LOW nick at the next higher dial setting. Probably due to the longer duration.