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Thread: Tri-Tronics Pro 500 Intensity Levels

  1. #51
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Hoyt..... the "CC" part of dog training last maybe 9 days (I use the Lardy way not Evan... but not that many ways to shock your dog)........ but after CC, once you go up and down like you say and find the working level of a dog. That is purty much it. On my TT 500 I set the dial to 2 for Scooby Do, my old psyco rescue chessie but could correct him with the tone button, he has some issues. And when I put the same collar on Loco my young Chessie I set the dial to 5, but he eats yellow jackets and flosses with barbed wire for fun. Both dogs are happy.
    It is good you are shocking yourself. We all should feel the thump we give.
    But for real, just pick a level. in that level you got low med and high.
    to ease your mind maybe send in your collar to colar clinic or TT for a check up.
    but I say pick a level and light um up!!!!!
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  2. #52
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Maybe it's just me. But has dog training always been this damn complicated?
    Bill Davis

  3. #53
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Maybe it's just me. But has dog training always been this damn complicated?
    For some, probably, if they choose to make it that way!
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  4. #54
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    Quote."Maybe it's just me. But has dog training always been this damn complicated? "

    Nope.......in the old days you just shot um in the ars with a load of 6's and if they yelped you were right on.......

    I love the collar and I think you guys are over thinking it. Just try this..... use the button with the smallest number that gets you the results you want or need at the moment. Just my opinion. Don

  5. #55
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Hoyt, I may be wrong, but I think the Tritronics collar is set up way different than you think it is, I believe it is close to a logrithmic scale such as the following. Rather than using volts or amps, I'll make up a unit called a "Yikes". Say a tenth of a Yike doesn't even register on a sleeping Chihuahua and a 100 electrcutes a raging Grizzly, here's how the collar is set up:

    #1 Low = four tenths a Yike; Medium + four Yikes: and High = 40 Yikes
    #2 Low = .5 Yikes; Medium = 5 Yikes and High = 50 Yikes
    #3 Low = .6 Yikes; Medium = 6 Yikes and High = 60 Yikes
    #4 Low = .7 Yikes; Medium = 7 Yikes and High = 70 Yikes
    #5 Low = .8 Yikes; Medium = 8 Yikes and High = 80 Yikes
    #6 Low = .9 Yikes; Medium = 9 Yikes and High = 90 Yikes

    Though I exaggerated the scale, this is the way it seems to work in real life to me, a high on any level seems to be a much greater degree of burn than simply turning up a number. I hope this helps,

    John

  6. #56
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoytman View Post
    I have been to 3 Smartwork seminars and watched Mr. Graham cc to "here" numerous dogs. I've done this very same thing on 4 dogs myself. All have been working up the scale in a 1l, 1m, 1h, 2l, 2m, 2h, 3l, 3m, etc., and back down in a similar fashion. Obvious reactions can be observed with virtually all but the lowest of stimulations. These reactions mimick my own finding placing the collar in my hand.

    Not one single time have I ever heard Mr. Graham ever explain, at any (3)seminar(s) or in any of his videos, that I can recall, that I must bounce back and forth on a pro 500 when progressing up the scale. Not once. It was a sequintial and logical progression, just as it was on my hand, 1L, 1M, 1H, 2L, 2M, 2H, 3L, 3M, 3H, 4L, 4M, 4H, etc. If I have misrepresented what he taught me, then I owe him a public apology., as well as to all of you.
    Bill,

    I'm in Jupiter, Florida this week so I'm iphoning it here. I'm having a little difficulty getting a clear picture of the conflict in this discussion. But one thing that doesn't seem clear. As we reach threshold during pressure conditioning, we switch to nicks AND work back down the scale of intensity levels 2 levels at a time - ultimately out of pressure altogether. The process is not entirely "low, medium, high" each level up and down scale, nor is it all continuous or all nicks. I hope this helps.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelast2 View Post
    Scale goes from #1L #1M #1H #2L #2M #2H #3L #3M #3H and so on.
    From post #2 and I agreed the scale was as listed above.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    I believe that is incorrect. My recollection is that a 2 high is higher than a 3 low; & is the same for all levels
    mjh is saying that a 2 high is hotter than a 3 low. I disagreed.

    It may show that on a meter, but this is not how I approach using the collar. My experience placing the collar in my hand, using what I feel, matches the logical progression of the numbers...L1, M1, H1, L2, M2, H2,L3, M3...threshold and then back down two levels at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoytman View Post
    You can't tell this isn't correct by using my collar in my own hand. I think (from the pain I experienced) that this is correct. I made it to about 3M nick and about a 2 low constant...well until I let go that is. LOL! ...
    Perhaps others have been told that a 2 high is higher than a 3 lower, but you couldn't tell it from placing it on my leg. LOL!
    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    I went back and checked again... 4 low weaker than 3 high, 3 low weaker than 2 high, 2 low weaker than 1 high.... Significantly.

    This by mjh, "2 high is hotter than a 3 low" , and this by huntinman, "4 low weaker than 3 high" = saying the same thing only in a different way, and both would screw up the Smartwork scale of progression to cc to the "here" command.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Bill,

    I'm in Jupiter, Florida this week so I'm iphoning it here. I'm having a little difficulty getting a clear picture of the conflict in this discussion. But one thing that doesn't seem clear. As we reach threshold during pressure conditioning, we switch to nicks AND work back down the scale of intensity levels 2 levels at a time - ultimately out of pressure altogether. The process is not entirely "low, medium, high" each level up and down scale, nor is it all continuous or all nicks. I hope this helps.

    Evan
    Evan,
    In one of my former posts in this thread it's quite possible I wrote one thing and meant another. I know that in my last post I said I went down as I did up...that was simply not writing what I was thinking.

    I got out my Smartwork Obedience dvd and I indeed have cc to "here" the exact same way as you did with that young lady in the video. I get out of the session by scaling down 2 levels at a time. It would proceed like this: "My experience placing the collar in my hand, using what I feel, matches the logical progression of the numbers...L1, M1, H1, L2, M2, H2,L3, M3...threshold and then back down two levels at a time"...finishing with 3 good dogs...minus the bumper on the head. LOL!


    There are two things being discussed here about Pro500 collars;
    1) Levels of progression in HOTNESS as in L1, M1, H1, so on, and so forth, up to a H6. I subsribe to these levels of HOTNESS because I "feel" them this way.

    2) High levels of a given number...example a H4 (the #4 with both buttons depressed) being HOTTER than Low levels of the next higher number, example; a 5Low (the #5 with only the bottom button being depressed). A 5Low does NOT "feel" less hot than a 4High...if "feels" HOTTER in my hands. Of course, those levels are only examples because I can't take those numbers in continuous mode. The examples seemingly "feel"/progress in the same manner if I'm using nicks on my hand.

    Does that make sense, Evan?

    Evan said, "The process is not entirely "low, medium, high" each level up and down scale, nor is it all continuous or all nicks. I hope this helps."

    The way this is written confuses me. If it correlates with what is in the Obedience dvd on that "one" dog, and is done the same way for each future dog, though the threshold levels may be higher or lower, then we're on the same page.

    I disagreed with two guys saying the same thing in different ways. Both are saying that a given #H(both buttons) is HOTTER than the same given #Low(one...bottom button).

    That's as clear as I can describe it. All I know is that what I see in Evan's video is extremely easy and requires no thought for me since the first dog, and is exactly how I do it.

    It would make no sense to go up the scale such as L1, L2,...and then since these guys are saying that a H2 is hotter than a L3...that I'd have to skip the H2 and go to the L3. That skips an entire series of buttons...bottom button for low on a# level, top button for medium and the same # level, and then just skip both buttons depressed for the high on that same# level because it's HOTTER than the next higher #low. That's simply rediculous!
    Last edited by Hoytman; 03-04-2013 at 02:52 PM.

  8. #58
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    Ken,
    My deceased dogs working level was on level two, low. This gave me two levels of increase in hottness if I needed it. I understand setting the collar at the dogs working level and leaving it alone. I am simply talking about the progression of hottness while cc to "here" according to how it feels to my hand, and is perfectly described and shown in Evan's Obedience dvd. If you agree with that, then we're on the same page.

    None of this is personal.

    Later...
    Last edited by Hoytman; 03-04-2013 at 03:07 PM.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Don't over analyze this.

    The only scale you need to think about, is the dial. That's what you set to match the dog.

    Which button you push, depends on the circumstance.
    If you can't keep from over-thinking this, you are better off with just one button to choose from.

    amen.

    set it on 2. medium for cast refusal. high for shopping/over run on the return etc

    if he's really not getting the picture or i can tell its just one of those days then start at 3 and use med and burn (using a flyway so ive got the red button which seems to be between med-high) and just press it for a tenth of a second

  10. #60
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoytman View Post
    Ken,
    My deceased dogs working level was on level two, low. This gave me two levels of increase in hottness if I needed it. I understand setting the collar at the dogs working level and leaving it alone. I am simply talking about the progression of hottness while cc to "here" according to how it feels to my hand, and is perfectly described and shown in Evan's Obedience dvd. If you agree with that, then we're on the same page.

    None of this is personal.

    Later...
    Hoyt,
    None of this is personal. I am actually happy because it has triggered a great memory of a Great Man. Jim Greene. He and I trained dogs, hunted and scampered at hunt tests together. He was the Dad of a childhood friend. He died duck hunting with his Flat Coated Retriever. Back, way back. in 2000 he and I each purchased E-collars. I still right now am using that same Tri-Tonics 500. So because of this I am remembering the afternoon at Jim's kitchen table with our brand new fully charged collars. He chose Dogtra and Flat Coated I chose Tri-Tonics and Chesapeake's. As we ran through the levels on ourselves Jim's wife Kay was certain we were both insane and there was no hope for us.
    Anyway, I do not know what you are feeling in your hand. Here is what I know. Every TT collar I have ever shocked myself with. It is an embarrassingly large number BTW. Dating back to my mentors and first Chessie breeders collars that you put plug of a different color. Every one the levels overlap. I say again, for your own peace of mind. Send in your collar for a check up. Have you ever shocked yourself with anyone else's collar? Could any of us place our collars on you? Kidding!!!
    Also, and not dissin Evan. As I scent him the note saying he should drop into this thread. A fun and inexpensive addition to your video library would be the stand alone collar conditioning dvd by total retriever. The brown Mike Lardy link at top of this page. It is worth the view and you can easily sell it here on the classified page after. Or maybe even buy one there. As I was told, Read / View everything you can get your hands on and take everything with a grain of salt.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

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